Making Body Moulds Off Existing Vehicle
Discussion
Gentlemen, my daily mind wandering whilst stuck in commuter traffic got me pondering this.
If you have a glance at the Lotus in my profile, I was wondering how difficult it would be to make up moulds of its bodywork?
Are there any good sources of info on how to do this on the web or in literature?
I must stress, I cannot damage the bodywork in the process, but I shouldnt imagine this is a problem, people have taken moulds of Diablos for kits and I doubt they were done sacrificially?
My thought process at the moment is that Mazda based the MX-5 on the Elan S3/S4. It was a narrow body, whereas the one I have is a widebody if you will. So by taking the reliability and engineering of the Mazda chassis, a triumph of playful driving according to its praise on here, and dropping a body similar to my dads Lotus, you could combine old school elegance with modern engineering and reliability.
(there is a notion at the back of my head that also says drop in the lump from a 320d/330d BMW and you'd possibly have the ideal frugal yet powerful small car)
If you have a glance at the Lotus in my profile, I was wondering how difficult it would be to make up moulds of its bodywork?
Are there any good sources of info on how to do this on the web or in literature?
I must stress, I cannot damage the bodywork in the process, but I shouldnt imagine this is a problem, people have taken moulds of Diablos for kits and I doubt they were done sacrificially?
My thought process at the moment is that Mazda based the MX-5 on the Elan S3/S4. It was a narrow body, whereas the one I have is a widebody if you will. So by taking the reliability and engineering of the Mazda chassis, a triumph of playful driving according to its praise on here, and dropping a body similar to my dads Lotus, you could combine old school elegance with modern engineering and reliability.
(there is a notion at the back of my head that also says drop in the lump from a 320d/330d BMW and you'd possibly have the ideal frugal yet powerful small car)
What you have there is a Vegatune Evante as I'm sure you know.
They where actually produced for sale in the '80s and early '90s they produced quite a few based on the Spyder Elan replacement chassis I think production ran to 100 or so. The company went into liquidation and the project was bought by a company called Fluer de Lys who make/made retro vans. They built 9 but then stopped maybe they still have the moulds?
There is a register for the cars here
I'd be looking at getting hold of some panels for an original Elan and modifying those to suit as it will be easier and cheaper in the long run I think.
Taking moulds off cars is not easy and not cheap and unless you know what you're doing you'll damage the paint on the doner car. Even at that point you're still quite a way off producing a mould suitable for production runs.
They where actually produced for sale in the '80s and early '90s they produced quite a few based on the Spyder Elan replacement chassis I think production ran to 100 or so. The company went into liquidation and the project was bought by a company called Fluer de Lys who make/made retro vans. They built 9 but then stopped maybe they still have the moulds?
There is a register for the cars here
I'd be looking at getting hold of some panels for an original Elan and modifying those to suit as it will be easier and cheaper in the long run I think.
Taking moulds off cars is not easy and not cheap and unless you know what you're doing you'll damage the paint on the doner car. Even at that point you're still quite a way off producing a mould suitable for production runs.
Edited by V8 GRF on Tuesday 2nd October 13:36
V8 GRF said:
What you have there is a Vegatune Evante as I'm sure you know.
They where actually produced for sale in the '80s and early '90s they produced quite a few based on the Spyder Elan replacement chassis I think production ran to 100 or so. The company went into liquidation and the project was bought by a company called Fluer de Lys who make/made retro vans. They built 9 but then stopped maybe they still have the moulds?
There is a register for the cars here
I'd be looking at getting hold of some panels for an original Elan and modifying those to suit as it will be easier and cheaper in the long run I think.
Taking moulds off cars is not easy and not cheap and unless you know what you're doing you'll damage the paint on the doner car. Even at that point you're still quite a way off producing a mould suitable for production runs.
The car on my profile and another pistonheader in Canada (name eludes me at the moment) have the 2 prototype Elans. He visited the Vegantune factory a few years back and managed to talk to one fo the original guys there and he verified that there had been 2 original fixed heads and possibly one roadster. They thought mine had been destroyed in a crash in the 90s with a Range Rover but it wasnt (it just has a slightly shitty fibreglass repair to the front wing to show for the battle).They where actually produced for sale in the '80s and early '90s they produced quite a few based on the Spyder Elan replacement chassis I think production ran to 100 or so. The company went into liquidation and the project was bought by a company called Fluer de Lys who make/made retro vans. They built 9 but then stopped maybe they still have the moulds?
There is a register for the cars here
I'd be looking at getting hold of some panels for an original Elan and modifying those to suit as it will be easier and cheaper in the long run I think.
Taking moulds off cars is not easy and not cheap and unless you know what you're doing you'll damage the paint on the doner car. Even at that point you're still quite a way off producing a mould suitable for production runs.
I believe the documentation my father has with the car suggests it was the prototype for the Evante. (cant be sure, need to actually look it over myself, refresh my memory).
I had a feeling I was making it sound too easy in the body moulding department. I have zero experience in such things so that idea will have to go back to the drawing board.
V8 GRF said:
What you have there is a Vegatune Evante as I'm sure you know.
[anorak mode]Actually, no it's not.... the 'proper' (production) Evante had a special version of the Spyder spaceframe chassis, with different suspension using Ford based suspension components, along with a Vegantune Twin Cam engine (a completely different cylinder head to the Lotus one, with belt driven instead of chain driven cams).
Emicem's car clearly has a Lotus Twin Cam engine (Stromberg head was never an option on the Vegantune unit) and Lotus-based running gear (note the knock-off wheels instead of the Ford 4-stud bolt-on items used on the 'proper' Evante). There are also body differences compared to the 'production' Evantes.
As Emicem himself says in his profile, what he has there is a Vegantune modified S3/S4 Elan (bonnet bulge and Strombergs suggests S4, pre-airflow coupe suggests S3... I'd need to see the rear lights to decide which it was based on).
[/anorak mode]
In answer to the original question, though, the Mazda MX5 has no separate chassis, so it wouldn't be a simple matter to drop an Elan (or Vegantune) bodyshell over the top of it. You'd need to fabricate a backbone chassis to take the Mazda running gear, as well as moulding the new body.
Spyder does a well established conversion that uses modern Ford running gear (Zetec engine and 5 speed gearbox) for the Elan bodyshell, which would be a much simpler option.
Elan bodyshells are still available new, and there was a chap lurking around on Pistonheads not so long ago who owns the Evante project and was talking about putting it back into production, so presumably he would be able to provide an 'Evante' bodyshell, if you preferred (can't imagine why - the original Lotus body looks much better; the rear lights/tail treatment on the production Evante was a particulalry half-arsed effort).
Cost of building a complete car from scratch, with Spyder Zetec running gear and a new shell would be prohibitive, though - you'd be much better off investing in a nice original and spending the several thousand pounds you'd have left over on maintenance.
Interesting.
Before they actually serial produced the Evante Vegatune did a number of ad-hoc conversions and as you say it looks like your car and the other one you know of may have been hand built and indeed may have had moulds taken from them? Edited to add as Sam 68 above has pointed out
You rightly point out that the serial production cars were all drop tops.
Lotus Elan panels are quite widely available and I guess that would be your best route to an MX5 conversion which I think you do by removing the MX5 panels and mounting the new 'Elan-ish' panels on the existing chassis, a lot of work, but if you were thinking of offering a kit, the easiest way to do it.
Before they actually serial produced the Evante Vegatune did a number of ad-hoc conversions and as you say it looks like your car and the other one you know of may have been hand built and indeed may have had moulds taken from them? Edited to add as Sam 68 above has pointed out
You rightly point out that the serial production cars were all drop tops.
Lotus Elan panels are quite widely available and I guess that would be your best route to an MX5 conversion which I think you do by removing the MX5 panels and mounting the new 'Elan-ish' panels on the existing chassis, a lot of work, but if you were thinking of offering a kit, the easiest way to do it.
Edited by V8 GRF on Tuesday 2nd October 14:12
Yes, should have been clearer, I appreciate the MX5 has no separate chassis in the way the Elan does, I simply wanted to take a mould of the vehicle I have and then figure out how to re-panel the MX5 with them.
Our car is a 1969 model which I believe puts it in S4 territory.
Half arsed is a nice term for the rear lights on the Evantes pictured on that site.
This was the other Vegantune Elan I was aware of, PHer chau:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?mem...
Our car is a 1969 model which I believe puts it in S4 territory.
Half arsed is a nice term for the rear lights on the Evantes pictured on that site.
This was the other Vegantune Elan I was aware of, PHer chau:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?mem...
emicen,
It is not too difficult to take the mould from your car.
Your not too far from me (Lanark) so I could explain how it is done.
Done a few projects over the years with grp.
Are you going on the Pistonheads run this saturday? passing Helensburgh
Might meet you there if you decide to go.
Look up the Scotland furum on Pistonheads for details.
R
It is not too difficult to take the mould from your car.
Your not too far from me (Lanark) so I could explain how it is done.
Done a few projects over the years with grp.
Are you going on the Pistonheads run this saturday? passing Helensburgh
Might meet you there if you decide to go.
Look up the Scotland furum on Pistonheads for details.
R
Sam_68 said:
...there was a chap lurking around on Pistonheads not so long ago who owns the Evante project and was talking about putting it back into production....
OP and whoever Sam refers to take note:I'd check first with SVA, pop up headlights IIRC will fail the test.
I supose with the small headlight units available today it might be possible to replace the popup covers with glass and have the lights behind them thus keeping the shape original.
Though I agree the rear of the Evante looked less good than the original IIRC it was a genuine attempt to improve high speed aerodynamics, not for greater speed but for stability.
cymtriks said:
OP and whoever Sam refers to take note:
I'd check first with SVA, pop up headlights IIRC will fail the test.
I'd check first with SVA, pop up headlights IIRC will fail the test.
SVA Manual 2004 edition said:
Check that no lamp or reflector can be moved by swivelling, deflecting or otherwise while the vehicle is in motion.
Note 1: This requirement does not apply to the following:
....
> A headlamp for adjustment or dipping of the beam or which can be retracted or concealed
In any case, the Evante bodyshell is almost certainly close enough to the Elan to be able to fit any of the commonly available '26R' fixed headlamp conversion kits, or you could simply use the Westfield Eleven approach of using fixed 'frogeye' headlamp pods for the SVA and changing them as soon as you have the test certificate (the Eleven doesn't use pop-ups, of course, but its fixed headlamps are mounted too low to pass the SVA).Note 1: This requirement does not apply to the following:
....
> A headlamp for adjustment or dipping of the beam or which can be retracted or concealed
cymtriks said:
Though I agree the rear of the Evante looked less good than the original IIRC it was a genuine attempt to improve high speed aerodynamics, not for greater speed but for stability.
It was a misplaced effort, if it was, since I can confirm that the original Elan shape is perfectly stable at high speed. 
I must admit that I was under the impression that the revised tail treatment was simply to accommodate then-current, available tail light clusters; the last Series Elans use Alfa tail light clusters that have been rare and expensive to obtain for quite a number of years.
Sam_68 said:
cymtriks said:
OP and whoever Sam refers to take note:
I'd check first with SVA, pop up headlights IIRC will fail the test.
I'd check first with SVA, pop up headlights IIRC will fail the test.
SVA Manual 2004 edition said:
Check that no lamp or reflector can be moved by swivelling, deflecting or otherwise while the vehicle is in motion.
Note 1: This requirement does not apply to the following:
....
> A headlamp for adjustment or dipping of the beam or which can be retracted or concealed
Note 1: This requirement does not apply to the following:
....
> A headlamp for adjustment or dipping of the beam or which can be retracted or concealed
What about pedestrian impact? Do any rules for these outlaw pop ups?
cymtriks said:
Sam_68 said:
cymtriks said:
OP and whoever Sam refers to take note:
I'd check first with SVA, pop up headlights IIRC will fail the test.
I'd check first with SVA, pop up headlights IIRC will fail the test.
SVA Manual 2004 edition said:
Check that no lamp or reflector can be moved by swivelling, deflecting or otherwise while the vehicle is in motion.
Note 1: This requirement does not apply to the following:
....
> A headlamp for adjustment or dipping of the beam or which can be retracted or concealed
Note 1: This requirement does not apply to the following:
....
> A headlamp for adjustment or dipping of the beam or which can be retracted or concealed
What about pedestrian impact? Do any rules for these outlaw pop ups?
Not sure the car would require and SVA in anycase as it would only be re-panelled not reshelled.
Yep, pedestrian impact is the main reason that the mainstream manufacturers have abandoned pop-ups; there's enough 'structure' in the pods, linkages and motors to make it difficult to acheive the necessary 'soft crumple' standards.
I doub't you'd get away with registering the car as a 're-shelled' Mazda MX5, though, unless you told the DVLA some serious lies... there isn't a separate chassis on the MX5 that you can retain to drop the Elan/Evante shell onto, so you'd effectively be taking the same approach as Westfield has with their new MX5 based car (ie. re-using suspension and drivetrain components but with a new bodyshell and chassis). The car would score enough points to retain the donor registration rather than getting a Q-plate, but you'd still need to put it through the SVA.
I doub't you'd get away with registering the car as a 're-shelled' Mazda MX5, though, unless you told the DVLA some serious lies... there isn't a separate chassis on the MX5 that you can retain to drop the Elan/Evante shell onto, so you'd effectively be taking the same approach as Westfield has with their new MX5 based car (ie. re-using suspension and drivetrain components but with a new bodyshell and chassis). The car would score enough points to retain the donor registration rather than getting a Q-plate, but you'd still need to put it through the SVA.
Sam_68 said:
Yep, pedestrian impact is the main reason that the mainstream manufacturers have abandoned pop-ups; there's enough 'structure' in the pods, linkages and motors to make it difficult to acheive the necessary 'soft crumple' standards.
I doub't you'd get away with registering the car as a 're-shelled' Mazda MX5, though, unless you told the DVLA some serious lies... there isn't a separate chassis on the MX5 that you can retain to drop the Elan/Evante shell onto, so you'd effectively be taking the same approach as Westfield has with their new MX5 based car (ie. re-using suspension and drivetrain components but with a new bodyshell and chassis). The car would score enough points to retain the donor registration rather than getting a Q-plate, but you'd still need to put it through the SVA.
But thats it, it wouldnt be re-shelled. It would be re-panelled.I doub't you'd get away with registering the car as a 're-shelled' Mazda MX5, though, unless you told the DVLA some serious lies... there isn't a separate chassis on the MX5 that you can retain to drop the Elan/Evante shell onto, so you'd effectively be taking the same approach as Westfield has with their new MX5 based car (ie. re-using suspension and drivetrain components but with a new bodyshell and chassis). The car would score enough points to retain the donor registration rather than getting a Q-plate, but you'd still need to put it through the SVA.
Not really a lot different to a chav'd Corsa running a large fibreglass bodykit.
What I am talking about it an Elan/MX5 version of these F355/MR2 kits. Remove Mazda wings, bumpers, bonnet and replace with fibreglass moulds.
The shell would remain intact and swapping the engine wouldnt make it necessary to re-register the vehicle.
Can't be done... at least not easily. The dimensional differences between the cars are too great.V8OWNER said:
I thought it was cos European legislation has banned them..
Well, yes, sort of... EU type approval is applicable to all mass-manufactured cars in all EU member states (including the UK), and EU type approval effectively outlaws pop-up headlamps, but the UK negotiated exemption clauses for EU type approval for limited production and non-EU personal imports... SVA (single vehicle approval) for amateur built and personal imports and LVTA (Low Volume Type Approval) for limited production cars (less than 500 units per year, IIRC).As Emicen said, there is no impact requirement beyond the sharp edges stuff in the SVA, because it would require detructive testing (which kind of defeats the object, if you'd just built a one-off car!).
So... EU legislation effectively bans pop-up lights both in mainland European countries and in the UK for mainstream production cars, but there is an alternative method of approval in the UK for 'one-offs' that isn't so stringent and so provides a loophole.
V8 GRF said:
Taking moulds off cars is not easy and not cheap and unless you know what you're doing you'll damage the paint on the doner car. Even at that point you're still quite a way off producing a mould suitable for production runs.
Surely this is still a lot simpler than making a buck by yourself, it has to be the best short cut to making your own bodyshell.Why are you so far away from production runs at this point? Surely once you have the molds, you have the tooling to make as many as you want as long as the molds are made properly?
Hi.
Do not know if you started this conversion/project.
Are you aware you can still buy most body panels for a Vegantune Evante MK1.
The body panels moulds are owned by Vegantune but held by the Evante Owner Club for the good of the Evante Club under agreement with Vegantune.
Vegantune own the Evante Logo and name.
Vegantune own the Right to the MK1 shape.
Vegantune are looking at running a New model of the Evante car .
If you would like some body panels contact info@Vegantune.com or contact the Evante Owner Club.
Cheers!
Do not know if you started this conversion/project.
Are you aware you can still buy most body panels for a Vegantune Evante MK1.
The body panels moulds are owned by Vegantune but held by the Evante Owner Club for the good of the Evante Club under agreement with Vegantune.
Vegantune own the Evante Logo and name.
Vegantune own the Right to the MK1 shape.
Vegantune are looking at running a New model of the Evante car .
If you would like some body panels contact info@Vegantune.com or contact the Evante Owner Club.
Cheers!
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff