Do I need an SVA?
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm building a Landranger 4x4 (www.thelandranger.co.uk) kit, based on a 1985 Range Rover and I'm having trouble getting any reasonable information wether I need an SVA test or not.
Basically the car runs on the original running gear of the Range Rover.
You strip the body and chassis down to the floor pan and front bulkhead, remove the (usually rotten) rear cross member from the chassis, bolt & weld the supplied roll cage to the chassis, weld in the supplied floor plates to fill in the gaps left after cutting out the rotten areas of floor.
Then you fit the fibreglass body panels, windscreen, lights etc and any other bits reqd to get the car running.
The manufacturer of the kit say an SVA is not reqd, that it can be used on its original reg docs etc and all that is needed is to get it MOT'd.
The car can even be kept on its original springs and wheels (although it looks ridiculous).
It still looks like a Range Rover but no longer has the rot problems, weighs about 1 ton lighter and has no roof.
Does anyone have any good info on this subject?
Regards
Andy
I'm building a Landranger 4x4 (www.thelandranger.co.uk) kit, based on a 1985 Range Rover and I'm having trouble getting any reasonable information wether I need an SVA test or not.
Basically the car runs on the original running gear of the Range Rover.
You strip the body and chassis down to the floor pan and front bulkhead, remove the (usually rotten) rear cross member from the chassis, bolt & weld the supplied roll cage to the chassis, weld in the supplied floor plates to fill in the gaps left after cutting out the rotten areas of floor.
Then you fit the fibreglass body panels, windscreen, lights etc and any other bits reqd to get the car running.
The manufacturer of the kit say an SVA is not reqd, that it can be used on its original reg docs etc and all that is needed is to get it MOT'd.
The car can even be kept on its original springs and wheels (although it looks ridiculous).
It still looks like a Range Rover but no longer has the rot problems, weighs about 1 ton lighter and has no roof.
Does anyone have any good info on this subject?
Regards
Andy
I think you'll find out that everyone has an opinion and everyone has different experiences!
My advice would be to go and discuss it directly with your local DVLA office. My car used an unmodified chassis with the original running gear and two guys just came to my house, checked the chassis number and the V5 was changed (about 18 months ago) no worries. I'm sure there will be others out there who have had total nightmares in the same situation...
My advice would be to go and discuss it directly with your local DVLA office. My car used an unmodified chassis with the original running gear and two guys just came to my house, checked the chassis number and the V5 was changed (about 18 months ago) no worries. I'm sure there will be others out there who have had total nightmares in the same situation...
I agree, as long as the DVLA people can see / get to the chassis no. when doing the MOT there shouldn't be a problem.
I had an occasion last year when trying to buy a Series 3 on a military chassis, because the DVLA people couldn't find the chassis no. due to body modifications it was deamed SVA - Q plate - and taxable... remember that when building your ranger - use a classic rover as the doner and you'll get away with not paying tax to the government too.
Good luck & good choice.
I had an occasion last year when trying to buy a Series 3 on a military chassis, because the DVLA people couldn't find the chassis no. due to body modifications it was deamed SVA - Q plate - and taxable... remember that when building your ranger - use a classic rover as the doner and you'll get away with not paying tax to the government too.
Good luck & good choice.
There are two schools here, basically if a chassis is used unaltered then no SVA is required. As you are cutting a lump off you have "radically altered" the vehicle and it requires SVA. This was brought in to catch all the hot rods who box a Ford Pop chassis and stick a 7 ltr engine in it and the like. Do as someone else suggested and speak with your local DVLA office and go with what they say. Many are running around with the rear bobbed on origanal paperwork with no hassle.
A news item in this months LRO Magazine says LandRanger 4x4 have pleaded guilty to a number of charges brought by trading standards. The wording does not go into detail but talks of "supplying an unsafe vehicle" and "claiming the vehicle could be legally used on the road".
The wording also says the trading standards reported the vehicle had "a number of safety defects that presented a serious risk...."
The vehicle has been crushed.
Trading standards said the vehicle should have gone for SVA.
The LRO report then goes on to talk about the many thousands of hybrids built and in daily use but does not come down on the side of SVA and only says it would be better to contact your local DVLA.
Has me wondering as I'm well along the way building my Dakar which does almost the same mods as the LandRanger.
Steve
PS. My apologies if my truncating of a whole page article has in some way lost meaning or truth etc.
The wording also says the trading standards reported the vehicle had "a number of safety defects that presented a serious risk...."
The vehicle has been crushed.
Trading standards said the vehicle should have gone for SVA.
The LRO report then goes on to talk about the many thousands of hybrids built and in daily use but does not come down on the side of SVA and only says it would be better to contact your local DVLA.
Has me wondering as I'm well along the way building my Dakar which does almost the same mods as the LandRanger.
Steve
PS. My apologies if my truncating of a whole page article has in some way lost meaning or truth etc.
Even bobtailing a rangie you have to remove a large lump of chassis (basically the rear overhang)and a large lump of body.
What about those guys that build a series vehicle on a rangie chassis?
How did Mark Evans get on with the 4x4 is born Hybrid he built using an old Range Rover?
There is obviously a rather large grey area on this subject.
I will pop into my local DVLA office and SVA station next time I go into Norwich.
Andy
What about those guys that build a series vehicle on a rangie chassis?
How did Mark Evans get on with the 4x4 is born Hybrid he built using an old Range Rover?
There is obviously a rather large grey area on this subject.
I will pop into my local DVLA office and SVA station next time I go into Norwich.
Andy
Steve_D said:
A news item in this months LRO Magazine says LandRanger 4x4 have pleaded guilty to a number of charges brought by trading standards. The wording does not go into detail but talks of "supplying an unsafe vehicle" and "claiming the vehicle could be legally used on the road".
The wording also says the trading standards reported the vehicle had "a number of safety defects that presented a serious risk...."
The vehicle has been crushed.
Trading standards said the vehicle should have gone for SVA.
The LRO report then goes on to talk about the many thousands of hybrids built and in daily use but does not come down on the side of SVA and only says it would be better to contact your local DVLA.
Has me wondering as I'm well along the way building my Dakar which does almost the same mods as the LandRanger.
Steve
I read that report and it is a bit vague. The car in question was one they built themselves. When I bought my kit, Mark, the company owner was adamant that it didnt need an SVA. But !!!The wording also says the trading standards reported the vehicle had "a number of safety defects that presented a serious risk...."
The vehicle has been crushed.
Trading standards said the vehicle should have gone for SVA.
The LRO report then goes on to talk about the many thousands of hybrids built and in daily use but does not come down on the side of SVA and only says it would be better to contact your local DVLA.
Has me wondering as I'm well along the way building my Dakar which does almost the same mods as the LandRanger.
Steve
Anyway when I got the build manual it was saying about riviting the new floor plates to the cage and the floorpan. I'll be welding the floorpan to the cage and the cage to the chassis for strength. So maybe that is where they fell foul in the safety aspects, along with the poor upper seatbelt mount. When I saw their demonstrator at the Exeter kitcar show I was impressed most aspects of the car, but I have changed a few things which I feel were missed.
My main concern was the seatbelt mounts. the lower mounts were the original range rover mounts, but the upper mounts for the harness went through the seat holes then down to the floor below the seat. (not very strong)
The Dakar is very similar in construction so how do they fair with SVA rules.
Andy
Dakar also say you do not need SVA but I will challenge them again on the subject.
I am convinced, as an engineer, that my finished Dakar will be far stronger and safer than it was as an aged RR Classic.
The Seat belts mount to a flange welded into the bottom of the main (3" diameter) roll hoop so I have no issues with that.
Steve
I am convinced, as an engineer, that my finished Dakar will be far stronger and safer than it was as an aged RR Classic.
The Seat belts mount to a flange welded into the bottom of the main (3" diameter) roll hoop so I have no issues with that.
Steve
in respect to the above land ranger report http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=18647 might help!
whether you need an SVA or not is very very hard to determine- if you make any alteration to the chassis then you need an SVA- it is debatable whether or not any dakar or landranger alters the chassis- i was told once by VOSA that as long as the chassis isn't altered in length by more than 15% then you have not altered it- so long as nothing is welded! unfortunately i have never been able to find any sort of written conformation of this and as such would take it with a very very big pinch of salt.
the SVA issue is getting more and more relevant when modding land rovers, and i hvae tkane the step of getting my new build inspected for SVA anyway. It's not that hard so long as you have 2 seats and a load bed in which case you can be counted as commercial! that's quite easy to pass and will make you legal.
whether you need an SVA or not is very very hard to determine- if you make any alteration to the chassis then you need an SVA- it is debatable whether or not any dakar or landranger alters the chassis- i was told once by VOSA that as long as the chassis isn't altered in length by more than 15% then you have not altered it- so long as nothing is welded! unfortunately i have never been able to find any sort of written conformation of this and as such would take it with a very very big pinch of salt.
the SVA issue is getting more and more relevant when modding land rovers, and i hvae tkane the step of getting my new build inspected for SVA anyway. It's not that hard so long as you have 2 seats and a load bed in which case you can be counted as commercial! that's quite easy to pass and will make you legal.
As has been said, any modifications to the original chassis OUGHT to go through SVA. Obviously, the DVLA inspectors tend to take a great deal of what they are told on trust, but ultimately it's your decision how much you modify the chassis and what you tell them.
There is one great advantage of going through SVA. If you DON'T, the car will need to comply with the Construction and Use and the Road Vehicle Lighting regs. C&U says (among other things) that seat belt anchorages need to meet the requirements of the appropriate EC Directive - UNLESS the car has been through SVA. So if you've got your bit of paper from VOSA saying it's passed SVA you've effectively got something with the government's name on it saying they think you meet all the requirements. IF you DON'T do SVA, you have no such proof. Prosecutions are rare, but nevertheless, it's a comfort to have an SVA certificate under your belt!
There is one great advantage of going through SVA. If you DON'T, the car will need to comply with the Construction and Use and the Road Vehicle Lighting regs. C&U says (among other things) that seat belt anchorages need to meet the requirements of the appropriate EC Directive - UNLESS the car has been through SVA. So if you've got your bit of paper from VOSA saying it's passed SVA you've effectively got something with the government's name on it saying they think you meet all the requirements. IF you DON'T do SVA, you have no such proof. Prosecutions are rare, but nevertheless, it's a comfort to have an SVA certificate under your belt!
Having taken a kit car through an SVA go to Leighton Buzzard. THe sva guy there is a big LR nut and we spent more time talking about LRs than the sva. After having gone through it, I would question any rebuild which alters a vehicle, like a landranger, which can not pass an SVA. It really isn't that bad.
As far as i'm aware only 1 dakar has been through SVA, and that was only because it was been sold abroad - so they could get it registered in spain. Apart from removing the rear crossmember, the entire chassis and bulkhead is intact. The 3" roll cage is at least 1/4" thick along with substantial side impact protection. Seat belts attach to roll cage. (and the buckles do as well, but i've seen one that will remain namless attached to the floorpan)
I've just had what I consider to be a rock solid confirmation of the requirements for SVA. I have just spoken to the chief SVA technical officer for VOSA. He has confirmed that as soon as you cut into the chassis of your donor it is 'no longer' the original vehcle. It then becomes an entirely new vehicle that WILL require SVA'ing as an amature built vehicle. You need build photographs to prove that you built the vehicle yourself, details of the donor etc.
As it becomes a new vehicle you will get a new identity, new log book and if you can prove the age of the parts (ie the donor) then you will get an age related plate, other wise you'll get a Q.
Therefore, all LandRangers, Dakars, Hybrids, Bob Tail Rangies and any other vehicles where you have to remove part of the original chassis as part of the build, WILL have to have an SVA. And apparantly you have until 2009 to get it sorted before the regulations change and it gets more difficult.
Obviously if you are doing a repair and replacing something like for like then thats fine, it keeps its identity.
Sorry for the bad news but I thought I would pass it on.
Andy
As it becomes a new vehicle you will get a new identity, new log book and if you can prove the age of the parts (ie the donor) then you will get an age related plate, other wise you'll get a Q.
Therefore, all LandRangers, Dakars, Hybrids, Bob Tail Rangies and any other vehicles where you have to remove part of the original chassis as part of the build, WILL have to have an SVA. And apparantly you have until 2009 to get it sorted before the regulations change and it gets more difficult.
Obviously if you are doing a repair and replacing something like for like then thats fine, it keeps its identity.
Sorry for the bad news but I thought I would pass it on.
Andy
Edited by andyducati on Tuesday 8th January 14:21
V8 GRF said:
Then what, more bad news? 
He didnt go into details but said it would be a much harder process to re-register and there would be a general tightening up the restrictions in the SVA. Sorry all, I didn't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I needed to find out the regulations and I thought it would be best to share my findings.
Regards
Andy
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