New Here, Is my Plan do-able?
Discussion
Hi,
Firstly i'd just like to say i've had some good enjoyment from cars and bikes, from 300zx twin turbo, zxr750, gsxr600, Sierra which i swapped in a 2.0 engine and DIY T25 Turbo, Civic 1.6VTi and now i have my Civic Aerodeck 1.8VTi. - but now i think it's time to find some real satisfaction and build my own.
I love the Honda B-Series engines, great fun, with a 8500rpm redline with all the power up top which you need to wring every last HP out of it to keep it going... so my plan is...
(i'll list things here to keep things simple)..
1. Buy a Donor Civic 1.8VTi (1.8 VTi's have 170bhp, 122ft/lbs, LSD 5 speed, discs front and rear, double-wishbone suspension front and rear)
1a. I plan to use as many of the civic parts as possible, even the double wishbone suspension etc.. (i know it's possible but are there any real drawbacks to this?)
2. Welding together my own chassis. Keeping it very simple and i don't plan on having any doors, roof, body panels etc.
3. Fit as much of the original civic parts as possible (suspension, steering rack, brakes, hubs, engine, gearbox, pedal box?)
4. Source/Sort out all the lights etc that aren't from the civic that i will require.
5. Finishing touches for SVA test.
Reason i want to use as many civic parts is that i just love Honda! and i don't see any/many Honda based kitcars out there. I also want to make my own chassis but i'm wondering if this is advisable, if so, anyone got any information/links etc on custom chassis's?
I know this is a short shortlist but going by what i've said above does this project sound feasible to you experienced builders?
I can MIG weld, and have done some some time. I've also had a lot of experience in car/motorbike mechanics etc and in my head i've got a pretty clear idea of what i want and how to do it and there's nothing that's cropping up that i think to myself.. "can i really do that?"
My biggest concern is, A. making my own chassis, and B. using the Civic Suspension parts. So any info/advice on those would be appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Kev.
Firstly i'd just like to say i've had some good enjoyment from cars and bikes, from 300zx twin turbo, zxr750, gsxr600, Sierra which i swapped in a 2.0 engine and DIY T25 Turbo, Civic 1.6VTi and now i have my Civic Aerodeck 1.8VTi. - but now i think it's time to find some real satisfaction and build my own.
I love the Honda B-Series engines, great fun, with a 8500rpm redline with all the power up top which you need to wring every last HP out of it to keep it going... so my plan is...
(i'll list things here to keep things simple)..
1. Buy a Donor Civic 1.8VTi (1.8 VTi's have 170bhp, 122ft/lbs, LSD 5 speed, discs front and rear, double-wishbone suspension front and rear)
1a. I plan to use as many of the civic parts as possible, even the double wishbone suspension etc.. (i know it's possible but are there any real drawbacks to this?)
2. Welding together my own chassis. Keeping it very simple and i don't plan on having any doors, roof, body panels etc.
3. Fit as much of the original civic parts as possible (suspension, steering rack, brakes, hubs, engine, gearbox, pedal box?)
4. Source/Sort out all the lights etc that aren't from the civic that i will require.
5. Finishing touches for SVA test.
Reason i want to use as many civic parts is that i just love Honda! and i don't see any/many Honda based kitcars out there. I also want to make my own chassis but i'm wondering if this is advisable, if so, anyone got any information/links etc on custom chassis's?
I know this is a short shortlist but going by what i've said above does this project sound feasible to you experienced builders?
I can MIG weld, and have done some some time. I've also had a lot of experience in car/motorbike mechanics etc and in my head i've got a pretty clear idea of what i want and how to do it and there's nothing that's cropping up that i think to myself.. "can i really do that?"
My biggest concern is, A. making my own chassis, and B. using the Civic Suspension parts. So any info/advice on those would be appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Kev.
Edited by KevDo on Thursday 24th January 17:41
Edited by KevDo on Thursday 24th January 17:42
KevDo said:
Hi,
Firstly i'd just like to say i've had some good enjoyment from cars and bikes, from 300zx twin turbo, zxr750, gsxr600, Sierra which i swapped in a 2.0 engine and DIY T25 Turbo, Civic 1.6VTi and now i have my Civic Aerodeck 1.8VTi. - but now i think it's time to find some real satisfaction and build my own.
I love the Honda B-Series engines, great fun, with a 8500rpm redline with all the power up top which you need to wring every last HP out of it to keep it going... so my plan is...
(i'll list things here to keep things simple)..
1. Buy a Donor Civic 1.8VTi (1.8 VTi's have 170bhp, 122ft/lbs, LSD 5 speed, discs front and rear, double-wishbone suspension front and rear)
1a. I plan to use as many of the civic parts as possible, even the double wishbone suspension etc.. (i know it's possible but are there any real drawbacks to this?)
2. Welding together my own chassis. Keeping it very simple and i don't plan on having any doors, roof, body panels etc.
3. Fit as much of the original civic parts as possible (suspension, steering rack, brakes, hubs, engine, gearbox, pedal box?)
4. Source/Sort out all the lights etc that aren't from the civic that i will require.
5. Finishing touches for SVA test.
Reason i want to use as many civic parts is that i just love Honda! and i don't see any/many Honda based kitcars out there. I also want to make my own chassis but i'm wondering if this is advisable, if so, anyone got any information/links etc on custom chassis's?
I know this is a short shortlist but going by what i've said above does this project sound feasible to you experienced builders?
I can MIG weld, and have done some some time. I've also had a lot of experience in car/motorbike mechanics etc and in my head i've got a pretty clear idea of what i want and how to do it and there's nothing that's cropping up that i think to myself.. "can i really do that?"
My biggest concern is, A. making my own chassis, and B. using the Civic Suspension parts. So any info/advice on those would be appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Kev.
Hi Kev,Firstly i'd just like to say i've had some good enjoyment from cars and bikes, from 300zx twin turbo, zxr750, gsxr600, Sierra which i swapped in a 2.0 engine and DIY T25 Turbo, Civic 1.6VTi and now i have my Civic Aerodeck 1.8VTi. - but now i think it's time to find some real satisfaction and build my own.
I love the Honda B-Series engines, great fun, with a 8500rpm redline with all the power up top which you need to wring every last HP out of it to keep it going... so my plan is...
(i'll list things here to keep things simple)..
1. Buy a Donor Civic 1.8VTi (1.8 VTi's have 170bhp, 122ft/lbs, LSD 5 speed, discs front and rear, double-wishbone suspension front and rear)
1a. I plan to use as many of the civic parts as possible, even the double wishbone suspension etc.. (i know it's possible but are there any real drawbacks to this?)
2. Welding together my own chassis. Keeping it very simple and i don't plan on having any doors, roof, body panels etc.
3. Fit as much of the original civic parts as possible (suspension, steering rack, brakes, hubs, engine, gearbox, pedal box?)
4. Source/Sort out all the lights etc that aren't from the civic that i will require.
5. Finishing touches for SVA test.
Reason i want to use as many civic parts is that i just love Honda! and i don't see any/many Honda based kitcars out there. I also want to make my own chassis but i'm wondering if this is advisable, if so, anyone got any information/links etc on custom chassis's?
I know this is a short shortlist but going by what i've said above does this project sound feasible to you experienced builders?
I can MIG weld, and have done some some time. I've also had a lot of experience in car/motorbike mechanics etc and in my head i've got a pretty clear idea of what i want and how to do it and there's nothing that's cropping up that i think to myself.. "can i really do that?"
My biggest concern is, A. making my own chassis, and B. using the Civic Suspension parts. So any info/advice on those would be appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Kev.
Edited by KevDo on Thursday 24th January 17:41
Edited by KevDo on Thursday 24th January 17:42
Welcome to the forum, and I think your project is doable, but are you planning it to be a front wheel drive roadster with no doors, or a mid-engine .
You can search the kitcar forum for topics concerning builds, but if you can't still find the info you need, and there is a huge anount in here.......try also :
www.locostbuilders.co.uk.
I'm sure you will find all the info you need from both forums.
Ciao
Italo
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 25th January 08:14
If you can find a copy of "High Speed - Low Cost" by Allan Staniforth. It describes a very simple process of chassis design and construction.
What sort of car are you planning to build? You may be giving yourself problems by trying to make the car around the components rather than the other way round.
Investigate the methods used in building composite light aeroplanes for ideas in body construction.
Good look in your venture.
What sort of car are you planning to build? You may be giving yourself problems by trying to make the car around the components rather than the other way round.
Investigate the methods used in building composite light aeroplanes for ideas in body construction.
Good look in your venture.
Thanks for the replies, some good info.
I plan on RWD, and technically it would be mid-engined.. going by how the engine site in the civic. Not looking for it to be 'pretty'. Main priorities are that it would be safe and strong - not too bothered about making it as light as i possibly can, which is good because tubular is more difficult/time consuming to fabricate so i think i may stick with box section.
I'm going to have a really good flick through these pages over the weekend, but one thing i would like to know is what kitcars usually weigh in at and how much heavier box section can be over tubular.
Reason i wanted to use the civic's wishbones etc was just to keep things simple in terms of design - i wouldn't know how to properly design a suspension system that works which makes it difficult to fabricate one that works - although i could be thinking the wrong way.
I'll have a look for that book and others to get me started.
Thanks.
I plan on RWD, and technically it would be mid-engined.. going by how the engine site in the civic. Not looking for it to be 'pretty'. Main priorities are that it would be safe and strong - not too bothered about making it as light as i possibly can, which is good because tubular is more difficult/time consuming to fabricate so i think i may stick with box section.
I'm going to have a really good flick through these pages over the weekend, but one thing i would like to know is what kitcars usually weigh in at and how much heavier box section can be over tubular.
Reason i wanted to use the civic's wishbones etc was just to keep things simple in terms of design - i wouldn't know how to properly design a suspension system that works which makes it difficult to fabricate one that works - although i could be thinking the wrong way.
I'll have a look for that book and others to get me started.
Thanks.
Would expect that using the Civic suspension on your own chassis will need to be thought about carefully - if the new chassis has picup points the same as the donor with the same mass distribution on the finished car you may be ok. Otherwise you may have to make some adjustments to make the suspension work with the chassis or visa versa.
Good luck - not a small undertaking in any way, but if you can stick it out, well worth it and I for one will buy you a beer.
Good luck - not a small undertaking in any way, but if you can stick it out, well worth it and I for one will buy you a beer.
yeah i was thinking about the difference in weight, and weight distribution, wheelbase etc.. as you say will probably need a few tweaks. I'll look into suspension and chassis setups mostly for now and get an idea on the best way to go about it.
So much information and sites with build diaries out there, just hope i don't forget to go to work on Monday
So much information and sites with build diaries out there, just hope i don't forget to go to work on Monday
KevDo said:
1. Buy a Donor Civic 1.8VTi (1.8 VTi's have 170bhp, 122ft/lbs, LSD 5 speed, discs front and rear, double-wishbone suspension front and rear)
It's not technically a double wishbone set-up on the back of the Civic. It's a clever, (and somewhat complex) combination of a trailing arm with lateral links to control camber and a large void bush to give some toe in under braking. This probably isn't something you'd want to keep in simple kit car, and it would be going in the bin anyway if you make it mid-engined. If you were set on using only Civic bits you'd need the front suspension of another Civic for the front of your design.I wouldn't bother using the rack though, I have a 1.8VTi and it has easily the slowest steering rack of any modern(ish) car I have ever driven, though I believe the faster rack in the MG ZS180 will fit.
Anyway, get yourself registered on Locostbuilders and have a chat with the guys in the middy section.
Cheers Mike,
I've located a good enough deal on an H22 engine with low mileage with all the parts required including driveshafts, gearbox, hubs etc so it looks like i'll be going with that.
Yeah suspension is my main concern really as it's one thing i've never dabbled with.
Not sure how quick the rack from a Prelude is though but you're right it would be better to have a quick rack on cars like these. The old sierra was a nightmare when you got the backend out
I've located a good enough deal on an H22 engine with low mileage with all the parts required including driveshafts, gearbox, hubs etc so it looks like i'll be going with that.
Yeah suspension is my main concern really as it's one thing i've never dabbled with.
Not sure how quick the rack from a Prelude is though but you're right it would be better to have a quick rack on cars like these. The old sierra was a nightmare when you got the backend out
KevDo said:
Yeah suspension is my main concern really as it's one thing i've never dabbled with.
As Mike said, you don't want to keep that Civic suspension. Apart from the specific complexities of the Honda design, all cars use different suspension geometry front and rear, to manage handling balance. Swapping suspension geometry front and rear, or using a geometry designed for the front at both ends of the car, is a really bad idea and is likely to result in, erm, interesting handling characteristics!
Be cautious of the Locost forums. There is certainly some good advice to be had on there from people who know their stuff, but they are massively outnumbered by people who don't know their arse from their elbow and spout utter bollox. I'd suggest you do a bit of reading to get a grasp of the basics, then perhaps discuss the finer points on a more serious forum like SportsRacer.net where you won't have to filter quite so much bullsh1t to get to the good knowledge.
Edited by Sam_68 on Saturday 26th January 10:11
Sam_68 said:
There is certainly some good advice to be had on there from people who know their stuff, but they are massively outnumbered by people who don't know their arse from their elbow and spout utter bollox.
That's a good description of most internet forums!It's unfortunate that sometimes the least informed can write in a convincing manner; and the really knowledgable don't always argue their point.
There's nothing so convincing as a bigoted evangelist!
Anyway - back to your subject.
Very brave project, I think making convincing bodywork will take up a LOT of the time. That, and doing the SVA thing. Best of luck, and keep us informed.
Paul Drawmer said:
That's a good description of most internet forums!
Very true, but some are worse than others! I find that the Locost forums are worse than most, because the whole premise of their existence is doing it on the cheap rather than doing it right!The advantage of the more obscure competition car forums like SportsRacer.net is that most of the guys actually drive and/or develop cars which are by definition pretty competent to begin with (otherwise they wouldn't be competitive) and have given a lot of thought to the fine detail in order to gain that little bit of extra edge.
Paul Drawmer said:
Very brave project, I think making convincing bodywork will take up a LOT of the time. That, and doing the SVA thing. Best of luck, and keep us informed.
Yep, I tend to agree - it's a hell of a challenge you are taking on, bith in tems of technical knowledge and time. I know it's not the same as designing and building your own car from scratch, but have you considered trying a kit, first? Something like the Sylva Riot may tick most of your boxes (including ability to use Civic drivetrain) and would teach you a lot about the design of this type of car that you could later apply to a scratch build?
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