Aluminium Panelling
Discussion
Many kit cars, including my Stiker, have aluminium paneling on the propshaft tunnel and the chassis sides, as well as bulkheads etc, does this panelling add to the strength/rigidity of the chassis or it is just a convienient method of paneling. Could carbon fibre sheeting be used where straight aliminium panels are used.
I am just curious as I saw a race car recently where the steelwork was covered in carbon sheeting.
I am just curious as I saw a race car recently where the steelwork was covered in carbon sheeting.
Yes, the panelling certainly add to the rigidity. Panelling both sides, with honeycomb material between (as Caterham do on the side panels of their 7)is even better, though it increases weight (and chassis stiffness isn't the be-all-and-end-all).
Carbon panelling works, but since you can't clamp carbon sheet as tightly to the tubes with rivets as you can with ali,the risk is that the rivet holes enlarge slightly as the steel spaceframe flexes in use and much of the stiffness is lost. Even with aluminium this is a problem (traditional rivetted alloy monocoque tubs will lose a huge amount of stiffness in regular use), but the nature of carbon fibre sheeting makes it much more of a problem.
Carbon panelling works, but since you can't clamp carbon sheet as tightly to the tubes with rivets as you can with ali,the risk is that the rivet holes enlarge slightly as the steel spaceframe flexes in use and much of the stiffness is lost. Even with aluminium this is a problem (traditional rivetted alloy monocoque tubs will lose a huge amount of stiffness in regular use), but the nature of carbon fibre sheeting makes it much more of a problem.
Having used Carbon sheet for my dash and a few other areas of my Dax Rush V8, I have to say its a sod to work with and the lovely clear laquer is prone to chipping when sawing, drilling and riveting it.
It is prone to stone chipping and scratching, and I'd not use it to recover sides of my car (if they were aluminium clad) : you can tap out dents in aluminium and repolish out scratches, whcih you can't easily do with Carbon.
Carbon looks the bizz, but bearing in mind the cost of it and how fragile it can be and hard hard it is to work with, its a brave man who would tackle a full Carbon Look 7 - hats off to the guy in the above link.
It is prone to stone chipping and scratching, and I'd not use it to recover sides of my car (if they were aluminium clad) : you can tap out dents in aluminium and repolish out scratches, whcih you can't easily do with Carbon.
Carbon looks the bizz, but bearing in mind the cost of it and how fragile it can be and hard hard it is to work with, its a brave man who would tackle a full Carbon Look 7 - hats off to the guy in the above link.
Davi said:
I think if I were looking at panelling out with carbon, I'd be more tempted to form a mould and layup complete sections to bond to the chassis, rather than rivet individual flat sections down.
I think a combination of bond and rivet, perhaps?The problem with bonding is that steel corrodes; if you powder coat or stove enamel the steel to protect against corrosion, then you are depended upon 2 separate bonds - that between the carbon and the powder coat and that between the powder coat and the steel... and I don't think that powder coat would be the easiest material to get a decent bond with. The adhesives manufacturers might be able to advise, though.
Lotus obviously uses adhesive to bond the chassis of the Elise together, but that's aluminium, which can be 'stabilised' against corrosion by anodising it.
I think, on balance, yes, it would be more trouble than it's worth coming up with a suitable solution for a carbon panelling system that worked.
Sam_68 said:
Davi said:
I think if I were looking at panelling out with carbon, I'd be more tempted to form a mould and layup complete sections to bond to the chassis, rather than rivet individual flat sections down.
I think a combination of bond and rivet, perhaps?The problem with bonding is that steel corrodes; if you powder coat or stove enamel the steel to protect against corrosion, then you are depended upon 2 separate bonds - that between the carbon and the powder coat and that between the powder coat and the steel... and I don't think that powder coat would be the easiest material to get a decent bond with. The adhesives manufacturers might be able to advise, though.
Lotus obviously uses adhesive to bond the chassis of the Elise together, but that's aluminium, which can be 'stabilised' against corrosion by anodising it.
I think, on balance, yes, it would be more trouble than it's worth coming up with a suitable solution for a carbon panelling system that worked.
As you say not exactly straight forward, although depends what you are looking for - if you were to mould rather than just panel, you can include forms and shapes for mounting points that will give better aesthetics & possibly simpler construction later down the line?
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