The best kitcars on sale
Discussion
What do you reckon the best kit cars available are?
Not necesarily your favourites or the most exciting, but if you were talking to someone who believed that all kit cars are dubious 'Ferrari' body conversions or rusty Dutton Phaetons, what would you pick as an example to counter that?
The Murtaya? The Quantum 2+2? (Ok, I'm biased there, but I genuinely believe it's a higher quality car than the mass produced Ford it's based on!)? The Ultima? ...What?
Not necesarily your favourites or the most exciting, but if you were talking to someone who believed that all kit cars are dubious 'Ferrari' body conversions or rusty Dutton Phaetons, what would you pick as an example to counter that?
The Murtaya? The Quantum 2+2? (Ok, I'm biased there, but I genuinely believe it's a higher quality car than the mass produced Ford it's based on!)? The Ultima? ...What?
Here's a brief list of exillerating / beautifullcreations worthy of consideration.
As stated : Stratos , plus GTD 40 , Dax or GD Cobra V8, GTM Libra V6 if the styling is to your liking, or Dax Rush (V8,Megabusa or Cosworth Turbo powered for sheer acceleration, deceleration and cornering speed thrills).
Avoid Duttons, Henson,Robin Hood, Jago, Mini Mokes, etc .... just asking for an "I told you so" if you got one of them.
As stated : Stratos , plus GTD 40 , Dax or GD Cobra V8, GTM Libra V6 if the styling is to your liking, or Dax Rush (V8,Megabusa or Cosworth Turbo powered for sheer acceleration, deceleration and cornering speed thrills).
Avoid Duttons, Henson,Robin Hood, Jago, Mini Mokes, etc .... just asking for an "I told you so" if you got one of them.
RushV8 said:
Here's a brief list of exillerating / beautifullcreations worthy of consideration.
As stated : Stratos , plus GTD 40 , Dax or GD Cobra V8, GTM Libra V6 if the styling is to your liking, or Dax Rush (V8,Megabusa or Cosworth Turbo powered for sheer acceleration, deceleration and cornering speed thrills).
Avoid Duttons, Henson,Robin Hood, Jago, Mini Mokes, etc .... just asking for an "I told you so" if you got one of them.
I'm afraid I agree with the GD as the pinnacle of Cobra, but the DAX was very much second best to the RAM when I was looking.As stated : Stratos , plus GTD 40 , Dax or GD Cobra V8, GTM Libra V6 if the styling is to your liking, or Dax Rush (V8,Megabusa or Cosworth Turbo powered for sheer acceleration, deceleration and cornering speed thrills).
Avoid Duttons, Henson,Robin Hood, Jago, Mini Mokes, etc .... just asking for an "I told you so" if you got one of them.
Interesting that most kits on the market attempt to look like something else.
If I didn't like the GTM Libra I wouldn't have bought it, so I reckon that's one of the best.
There are others: I also like the Blackjack Zero. A lot. Oh, and Z cars Monte Carlo. (If I thought I could drive like Chris Allinson, I'd have one)
In any of these 'best' lists, the most important part of the question is missing: "best for what?"
There are so many offerings from ugly and mundane to beautiful and manic, that making a sensible list is pretty difficult, since demands can vary so much.
If I didn't like the GTM Libra I wouldn't have bought it, so I reckon that's one of the best.
There are others: I also like the Blackjack Zero. A lot. Oh, and Z cars Monte Carlo. (If I thought I could drive like Chris Allinson, I'd have one)
In any of these 'best' lists, the most important part of the question is missing: "best for what?"
There are so many offerings from ugly and mundane to beautiful and manic, that making a sensible list is pretty difficult, since demands can vary so much.
Boat anchor in the back and much less luggage room. More nimble with the 4 pot and not much down on performance. Adrenalin Murtaya, Hawk Stratos, GTM Libra, Fisher Fury, STM Phoenix, RAW Striker, R1ot, Parallel Designs Diablo, Westfield X1, Dax Rush, Z-Cars Mini(s), Ultima GTR. All these cars (and others) can claim to have something above the rest, be it standards of fit and finish, practicallity, pure performance, race proven, better than a real one (Stratos) ,...... there are plenty out there.
Paul Drawmer said:
In any of these 'best' lists, the most important part of the question is missing: "best for what?
Quality.Which cars when built by an average home mechanic, look like they should have been produced by a master craftsman or indeed a production line robot.
I'm a great fan of kit cars (I've built one and owned two), but I'm aware there are many people who immediately think of Ferrari F40 bodied TR7s or moss covered Dutton Phaetons whenever you say 'kit'.
The question was, which car would you present to these people to persuade them that a decent kit is up to the standards of its mainstream rivals? It could be slightly superfifical things like the level of trim or the satifying clunk of the doors (I'm thinking of the Royale Sabre with the last comment!) or it could be the Ultima beating just about every road car performance record in the book...
But Chris, with all due respect, whilst the Dutton name is used regularly to hint at what's bad about kitcars, the Phaeton was a car sold in great numbers a long time ago.
At the time, it sold because it was a great car. Great in the sense that it gave cracking performance for little money. OK, it did it almost exclusively by reducing weight rather than a sophisticated design, but we are talking about the early '80s.
It was a 2nd rate Lotus Seven, but at a 2nd rate price.
I have difficulty understanding just why it's so much maligned.
Edited to add:
I personally think that Quantums offerings were, despite the great fit and finish, too dull... TOO similar to the mainstream offerings. No lateral thinking. The only one I've ever driven WAS like being in a Fiesta, but without the roof.
At the time, it sold because it was a great car. Great in the sense that it gave cracking performance for little money. OK, it did it almost exclusively by reducing weight rather than a sophisticated design, but we are talking about the early '80s.
It was a 2nd rate Lotus Seven, but at a 2nd rate price.
I have difficulty understanding just why it's so much maligned.
Edited to add:
I personally think that Quantums offerings were, despite the great fit and finish, too dull... TOO similar to the mainstream offerings. No lateral thinking. The only one I've ever driven WAS like being in a Fiesta, but without the roof.
Edited by Ferg on Saturday 19th April 15:42
Ferg said:
I personally think that Quantums offerings were, despite the great fit and finish, too dull... TOO similar to the mainstream offerings. No lateral thinking. The only one I've ever driven WAS like being in a Fiesta, but without the roof.
excellently worked vehicles but just nothing that stood out about them - nothing you could be proud of building IYSWIM.With kit cars its all about what you make of it as a builder. If you buy a £30k kit and do a bad job of it it doesn't make the kit bad. Equally if you buy a low budget kit but take time and care making it then it can be a match for almost anything. I think achieveing the same appearance of build quality as mainstream manufacturers will always be very tough for someone in a garage with a hammer, hacksaw and a load of spanners though but kit cars are generally well looked after and not expected to be as durable as normal cars.
Yes some kits will be eaier to do a good job of than others but thats up to the builder to sort out.
Yes some kits will be eaier to do a good job of than others but thats up to the builder to sort out.
Ferg said:
But Chris, with all due respect, whilst the Dutton name is used regularly to hint at what's bad about kitcars, the Phaeton was a car sold in great numbers a long time ago.
At the time, it sold because it was a great car. Great in the sense that it gave cracking performance for little money. OK, it did it almost exclusively by reducing weight rather than a sophisticated design, but we are talking about the early '80s.
It was a 2nd rate Lotus Seven, but at a 2nd rate price.
I have difficulty understanding just why it's so much maligned.
Edited to add:
I personally think that Quantums offerings were, despite the great fit and finish, too dull... TOO similar to the mainstream offerings. No lateral thinking. The only one I've ever driven WAS like being in a Fiesta, but without the roof.
That's not intended as an attack on the Dutton - I nearly bought one a while back. My point was that people who've never owned one often percieve kit cars as 'DIY' - a bit like buying flat packed chipboard furniture, rather than vintage mahogany. The reason I chose things like the Phantom Vortex, the Murtaya and the Quantum is that they could conceivably be production cars. It is precisely that 'fit and finish' which would address the superficial concerns these people have about kit cars.At the time, it sold because it was a great car. Great in the sense that it gave cracking performance for little money. OK, it did it almost exclusively by reducing weight rather than a sophisticated design, but we are talking about the early '80s.
It was a 2nd rate Lotus Seven, but at a 2nd rate price.
I have difficulty understanding just why it's so much maligned.
Edited to add:
I personally think that Quantums offerings were, despite the great fit and finish, too dull... TOO similar to the mainstream offerings. No lateral thinking. The only one I've ever driven WAS like being in a Fiesta, but without the roof.
As for the Quantum, I'm quite glad it had things like a fully functioning demist system and a working heater care of the donor car dashboard being transplanted wholesale. It's not the most exciting car around, granted, but a well sorted example is as much fun to drive as any hot hatch I've ever come across and it has to be just about the only kit that'll swallow a mountain bike frame or indeed a pair of back seat passengers. I bought mine primarily as it was about the only interesting daily driver I could afford to run as a first car, but thousands of people who could have got something more exciting chose to buy one instead. I believe it was one of the biggest selling kit cars back in the 90s. As far as I'm aware it was also one of the first to offer production-car-like build quality.
It was rather like a tuned XR2 convertible I suppose, but I presume you're not going to say the Libra is too close to the Elise?
Ferg said:
Far from it Chris.
The Libra is a car that is similar to the Elise, granted. Both cars are decended from the GTM K3 after all, but it's execution is very different making it superior in many aspects as well as inferior in some.
Quite true. But fundamentally taking the Elise/MGF drive train and putting in the back of your own GRP tub to make a Libra is similar to putting the XR2 engine and gearbox in the front of your own GRP tub to make a Quantum.The Libra is a car that is similar to the Elise, granted. Both cars are decended from the GTM K3 after all, but it's execution is very different making it superior in many aspects as well as inferior in some.
The area where they are similar is is that both offer a degree of perceived quality that comes close to the production car they're based on. Both were considered by people who'd never previously have gone for a kit car.
Don't get me wrong - I'd be the first to take a Libra if offered the two cars, but I'm not talking about personal preference. The question was which kit cars you would use to disprove the idea that they're all poorly finished, unreliable, leaking, rough approximations to their mass produced equivalents. In that respect, it's not possible to be too much like a production car as the whole aim is to show the people who maintain they'd 'never buy a kit car' that their misconcecptions are wrong. I believe both aquit themselves very well in this respect, even if they are rather different machines.
Disclaimer: In case this isn't abundantly clear already, I'm not trying to suggest any modern kit car adheres to those stereotypes, but if you go back to the 70s and 80s there certainly were some pretty dubious examples. The idea is to show how far the kit car industry has moved on.
Edited by Chris71 on Saturday 19th April 17:47
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