Sylva Striker Mk2 & Mk3 differences?
Discussion
The outboard suspension (which uses Chevette uprights) is slightly better in terms of geometry and unsprung weight.
The inboard suspension was basically introduced to make the car a 'single donor' kit, since it could use the engine, gearbox, back axle and modified front struts from a Mk. 2 Escort, without having to source the Chevette components separately. The inboard suspension also looks better, though, and may offer a small aerodynamic advantage (corollary is that dampers will run hotter, of course).
The independent suspension was not introduced until long after the design had standardised on inboard suspension, so I don't think you'll come across any cars with outboard front and independent rear.
Whilst the live axle set-up is one of the cleverest and most effective live axle arrangements in the business, it's still not as good as the IRS set-up.
The inboard suspension was basically introduced to make the car a 'single donor' kit, since it could use the engine, gearbox, back axle and modified front struts from a Mk. 2 Escort, without having to source the Chevette components separately. The inboard suspension also looks better, though, and may offer a small aerodynamic advantage (corollary is that dampers will run hotter, of course).
The independent suspension was not introduced until long after the design had standardised on inboard suspension, so I don't think you'll come across any cars with outboard front and independent rear.
Whilst the live axle set-up is one of the cleverest and most effective live axle arrangements in the business, it's still not as good as the IRS set-up.
The coilovers on an outboard suspension Sylva are not particularly steeply inclined (perhaps 20 degrees from vertical), so the effect is not pronounced. It will be more than countered by the slightly poorer geometry in other respects, combined with the facts that the dampers run hotter behind the radiator and, perhaps most importantly on a car as light as the Striker, the increased unsprung weight.
Conversely, there are potential advantages from the increased weight of the rocker arm, in that the fairly cheap dampers usually fitted to Sylvas stand a better chance of a consistent response when they are resisting greater inertia.
Both set-ups are good enough to have won the kit car championship, so to be honest I'd say that there's nothing much to choose between them on a full-bodied (Phoenix/Mk. IV/Clubmans) Striker, but IMO the outboard suspension's cleaner looks probably tip the balance for an open wheel variant.
The choice is only relevant on a live axle car, though - if you want IRS, you'll get the rocker arm set-up whether you like it or not, and the IRS is almost certainly better than live axle for road or hillclimb use (for race use on smooth tracks there probably isn't much in it, again).
Conversely, there are potential advantages from the increased weight of the rocker arm, in that the fairly cheap dampers usually fitted to Sylvas stand a better chance of a consistent response when they are resisting greater inertia.
Both set-ups are good enough to have won the kit car championship, so to be honest I'd say that there's nothing much to choose between them on a full-bodied (Phoenix/Mk. IV/Clubmans) Striker, but IMO the outboard suspension's cleaner looks probably tip the balance for an open wheel variant.
The choice is only relevant on a live axle car, though - if you want IRS, you'll get the rocker arm set-up whether you like it or not, and the IRS is almost certainly better than live axle for road or hillclimb use (for race use on smooth tracks there probably isn't much in it, again).
Sam_68 said:
The coilovers on an outboard suspension Sylva are not particularly steeply inclined (perhaps 20 degrees from vertical), so the effect is not pronounced. It will be more than countered by the slightly poorer geometry in other respects, combined with the facts that the dampers run hotter behind the radiator and, perhaps most importantly on a car as light as the Striker, the increased unsprung weight.
Conversely, there are potential advantages from the increased weight of the rocker arm, in that the fairly cheap dampers usually fitted to Sylvas stand a better chance of a consistent response when they are resisting greater inertia.
Both set-ups are good enough to have won the kit car championship, so to be honest I'd say that there's nothing much to choose between them on a full-bodied (Phoenix/Mk. IV/Clubmans) Striker, but IMO the outboard suspension's cleaner looks probably tip the balance for an open wheel variant.
The choice is only relevant on a live axle car, though - if you want IRS, you'll get the rocker arm set-up whether you like it or not, and the IRS is almost certainly better than live axle for road or hillclimb use (for race use on smooth tracks there probably isn't much in it, again).
FXXK ME!!!!....kit cars are meant to be fun surely?..Does it really matter?Conversely, there are potential advantages from the increased weight of the rocker arm, in that the fairly cheap dampers usually fitted to Sylvas stand a better chance of a consistent response when they are resisting greater inertia.
Both set-ups are good enough to have won the kit car championship, so to be honest I'd say that there's nothing much to choose between them on a full-bodied (Phoenix/Mk. IV/Clubmans) Striker, but IMO the outboard suspension's cleaner looks probably tip the balance for an open wheel variant.
The choice is only relevant on a live axle car, though - if you want IRS, you'll get the rocker arm set-up whether you like it or not, and the IRS is almost certainly better than live axle for road or hillclimb use (for race use on smooth tracks there probably isn't much in it, again).
No, the Mk. 4 is what I have - see pic on my profile. It is also referred to as the 'Clubmans' or 'Phoenix', though of course the updated version of the full-bodied Striker is also referred to as the 'Phoenix', just to add to confusion!
And to Cozmic... yes, they're supposed to be fun, but Sylvas (particularly the Striker) are also supposed to win races. And if you want to win races, technical advantage counts.
FWIIW, a good independent rear suspension makes a big difference to the feel of the car on the road, too.
And to Cozmic... yes, they're supposed to be fun, but Sylvas (particularly the Striker) are also supposed to win races. And if you want to win races, technical advantage counts.
FWIIW, a good independent rear suspension makes a big difference to the feel of the car on the road, too.
Sam_68 said:
No, the Mk. 4 is what I have - see pic on my profile. It is also referred to as the 'Clubmans' or 'Phoenix', though of course the updated version of the full-bodied Striker is also referred to as the 'Phoenix', just to add to confusion!
And to Cozmic... yes, they're supposed to be fun, but Sylvas (particularly the Striker) are also supposed to win races. And if you want to win races, technical advantage counts.
FWIIW, a good independent rear suspension makes a big difference to the feel of the car on the road, too.
No argument there mate....Absolute truth...thats why i built oneAnd to Cozmic... yes, they're supposed to be fun, but Sylvas (particularly the Striker) are also supposed to win races. And if you want to win races, technical advantage counts.
FWIIW, a good independent rear suspension makes a big difference to the feel of the car on the road, too.
)Furyblade_Lee said:
As Sam says, I have had a live-axle Fury fireblade and an IRS Phoenix R1. On the track, there is not much in it. But on the road, the IRS is miles better. Far faster but more importantlt far safer. With less than 500kgs, the live axle car was very skittish on a bumpy lane.
I have a live axle Striker, 1600 K series engine, I very rarely use it on the road but it is used extensively and successfully for sprints and hillclimbs, the few times I do use it in the road I go quite slowly as it is as stated above skittish, part of that could be the set up of course.
The other thing to beware of is that there is a general tendency to use springs and dampers that are way too stiff for these cars for road use. People look at the sping rates on race cars and think that if it makes them faster on the track, it must be faster on the road too, if only you are willing to bear the discomfort, and that ain't necessarily so.
Also, there are a lot of guys out there who once heard that some guy called Chapman favoured soft springs and firm dampers, so they go out and set their adjustable dampers on their already over-stiff springs as stiff as they dare.
[/i]For road use[/i], on a light car,the dampers should only be as stiff as they need to be to control the springs, and the springs should only be as stiff as they need to be to stop the car hitting its bump stops and to control the unsprung masses. The low CG and overall weight of a 'Seven' type car means that it is virtually impossible to end up with the wallowy, imprecise handling that requires firmer suspension on bigger cars.
For reference, my Sylva used to race on 250lb front and 180lb rear springs. It is now on 180lb front and 130lb rears, with no ARB and with dampers toward the softest end of their adjustment range. It's reasonably compliant for road use, but even so, there are plenty of lanes where my slower (but more softly sprung) Elan can set a much quicker pace.
...and if you want to know how that Chapman fella did it, the standard spring rates on a 700 kilo, IRS Elan (which, logically, should need to be stiffer than a lighter car) are 75lb front and 67.5lb rear. Comparing that to some of the rates being quoted for an S1 Elise of similar weight on this thread gives food for thought...
Having said all which, the limit to soft springing on a live axle car is usually that the rear springs have got to be stiff enough to control the mass of the rear axle bouncing around, which is why IRS cars can be set up to be much more supple.
Also, there are a lot of guys out there who once heard that some guy called Chapman favoured soft springs and firm dampers, so they go out and set their adjustable dampers on their already over-stiff springs as stiff as they dare.
[/i]For road use[/i], on a light car,the dampers should only be as stiff as they need to be to control the springs, and the springs should only be as stiff as they need to be to stop the car hitting its bump stops and to control the unsprung masses. The low CG and overall weight of a 'Seven' type car means that it is virtually impossible to end up with the wallowy, imprecise handling that requires firmer suspension on bigger cars.
For reference, my Sylva used to race on 250lb front and 180lb rear springs. It is now on 180lb front and 130lb rears, with no ARB and with dampers toward the softest end of their adjustment range. It's reasonably compliant for road use, but even so, there are plenty of lanes where my slower (but more softly sprung) Elan can set a much quicker pace.
...and if you want to know how that Chapman fella did it, the standard spring rates on a 700 kilo, IRS Elan (which, logically, should need to be stiffer than a lighter car) are 75lb front and 67.5lb rear. Comparing that to some of the rates being quoted for an S1 Elise of similar weight on this thread gives food for thought...
Having said all which, the limit to soft springing on a live axle car is usually that the rear springs have got to be stiff enough to control the mass of the rear axle bouncing around, which is why IRS cars can be set up to be much more supple.
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