bike kit cars "whats out there?"
Discussion
well i thinking of getting a kit car for next summer when the ST goes. but i dont know what is out there and the costs
im looking for a bike engined kit car for road and track, main point is to go fast(ish). what models are out there? cost new and second hand, If new id like to build it my self.
do the kits come with then engines as i loooked at the dax web site and non of the stage kits say anything about the engine.
im looking for a bike engined kit car for road and track, main point is to go fast(ish). what models are out there? cost new and second hand, If new id like to build it my self.
do the kits come with then engines as i loooked at the dax web site and non of the stage kits say anything about the engine.
Nearly all of the 7 type kit manufacturers offer a bike engined version. You'll struggle to find many of them that offer engines though, regardless of bike or car, as what you want and how much you want to tune it is up to you, and as such they aren't able to offer that level of engine building. They may well be able to put you in touch with someone who can though. Otherwise, cost is quite varied, depending upon what spec you want. For example, yu could get a sierra donor car and use what ever diff and brakes it has, use it's steering rack and so on. Or you can go see Hi-Spec or others are get a bigger brake kit, use a one off LSD diff, and so on and as such the price goes through the roof. Also, engine choice has a large part to play. Old R1's are cheap(er) and reliable, new ZX1400 will be faster, but more bother to fit and wire, and will be a lot more money. It may be better to decide how much you have to spend and then see what options you like. Also remember that a 500 kg car doesn't always need massive brakes, just the correct pads.
Oh, and just how fast is fast-ish? Most BEC's are 5 sec 0-60 or less, and geared generally for about 120, give or take 15 mph.
Oh, and just how fast is fast-ish? Most BEC's are 5 sec 0-60 or less, and geared generally for about 120, give or take 15 mph.
If you want a non-7, then have a look at the Blaze RR - http://www.blazemotorsport.com/ - I think that they may be able to source an engine (they mention it on their prices page [which is a litte difficult to find - so here's the URL http://www.blazemotorsport.com/pricesrr.php ])
If i was in the market for a cheap used one, some of the mK Indy's out there are really nice. There are lots of them, and the clubs for them are helpful. R1 power too (my favorie) is a common choice. You have also got Fisher Fury , Sylva Phoenix, R1ot, Westfield Megablade/ Megabird /Megabusa, Formula 27, Sylva / RAW Striker, and several others. If you have £9-10k burning a hole in your pocket, the orange R1 Fury in the classifieds is one of the best, a mate built it and sold it on, very nicely done. Lots of Carbon / Caterham R500 bits on it.
Careful with that Fury!
When I went to see it, it had an engine gremlin (or clutch) and the engine was sitting on a crate at the side of the workshop. Make sure that has been sorted.
Its very very nicely built and has some nice and shiny trick bits. Definitely one of the best ones I have seen.
However, they are asking far too much for it! It has been sitting in their showroom for quite a few months now so they may be willing to entertain offers. They wouldn't entertain mine at the time...
When I went to see it, it had an engine gremlin (or clutch) and the engine was sitting on a crate at the side of the workshop. Make sure that has been sorted.
Its very very nicely built and has some nice and shiny trick bits. Definitely one of the best ones I have seen.
However, they are asking far too much for it! It has been sitting in their showroom for quite a few months now so they may be willing to entertain offers. They wouldn't entertain mine at the time...
Looking at the classifieds....
The Orange Indy fireblade looks good at £6,495, disc brakes all round and an LSD. And the red Phoenix at £7,495 also looks good (but I would have to fit proper race seats, mine came with those bench ones and give no side support). New seats less than £200 on ebay.
The two Strikers look cheap, but the green one would worry me a bit as the rollhoop looks like it will kill you even if the accident did not, below the line of his head. Some Dax Rush's and some Westfields ar notorious for that, too-low rollhoops are no good if all they do is crack your skull open. Especially if like me on sunny days you will just wear a hat not crash helmet. If you are rear-ended it will hurt.... If buying a car to track, make sure the roll hoop is at least not going to take your head off, and preferrably triangulate between the front suspension / engine block without your head as part of it.
People overlook the 'blade a bit now but the 893 and 919 upto about '97 are pretty indestructible as used by the class C RGB racers. I would say my old blade engine's noise and delivery was more exciting than my current R1, BUT I AM JUST SPLITTING HAIRS.
The Orange Indy fireblade looks good at £6,495, disc brakes all round and an LSD. And the red Phoenix at £7,495 also looks good (but I would have to fit proper race seats, mine came with those bench ones and give no side support). New seats less than £200 on ebay.
The two Strikers look cheap, but the green one would worry me a bit as the rollhoop looks like it will kill you even if the accident did not, below the line of his head. Some Dax Rush's and some Westfields ar notorious for that, too-low rollhoops are no good if all they do is crack your skull open. Especially if like me on sunny days you will just wear a hat not crash helmet. If you are rear-ended it will hurt.... If buying a car to track, make sure the roll hoop is at least not going to take your head off, and preferrably triangulate between the front suspension / engine block without your head as part of it.
People overlook the 'blade a bit now but the 893 and 919 upto about '97 are pretty indestructible as used by the class C RGB racers. I would say my old blade engine's noise and delivery was more exciting than my current R1, BUT I AM JUST SPLITTING HAIRS.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Just noticed the Yellow Indyblade at £4,995. Cheap.
For not how to do a roll hoop, look at the orange Mac#1 R1 and the yellow Fury. High-speed passenger ride anyone??? In the spec, looks like "slanted roll hoop" was a desirable option.
If you are going to carry passengers, you want a MSA spec hoop with proper backstays and diagonal brace. Passengers are too much responsibility and weight as far as I'm concerned so I instead have a properly braced asymetric bar in T45. While not MSA approved under 'protection for both occupants' rules for two-seater sportscars I'm sure it would give me a good level of protection. For not how to do a roll hoop, look at the orange Mac#1 R1 and the yellow Fury. High-speed passenger ride anyone??? In the spec, looks like "slanted roll hoop" was a desirable option.
In terms of available models, we all have our own opinions but there is plenty of choice. IMHO: The Striker is a peach, MKs tend to be excellent VFM without perfect dynamics, Mac#1 as per MK, MNR lovely welds and good quality although constantly changing specs confuses matters, the Fury is the RGB king along with the Pheonix. Megablade most saleable blah blah blah.
Sorry for th blatant plug, but you could put mine on the road, just a matter of paperwork. It's a bit more expensive, but it's a racing car so comes with balanced engine, plumbed in fire extinguisher, in-cockpit brake bias adjuster, full datalogging, etc. + spare engine and trailer if you want it.
http://petrolheads.com/sales/629317.htm
http://petrolheads.com/sales/629317.htm
sorry for the slow reply but iv been away in leeds working.
well there seem to be alot out there. as i said in my first post, i need to sell the ST first.
if i understand what i read. the R1 engine is good (best)?
the role cage/bar must be clear of my head LOL. that makes sences
i like the dax and the and the MC1 thing
what are the prose and cons of getting the the "flappy paddle gear box"
on a diffrent not. does anyone know much about the "westfeild areorace" thing. i had the westfeild man trying to sell me one at the exel motor show.
well there seem to be alot out there. as i said in my first post, i need to sell the ST first.
if i understand what i read. the R1 engine is good (best)?
the role cage/bar must be clear of my head LOL. that makes sences
i like the dax and the and the MC1 thing
what are the prose and cons of getting the the "flappy paddle gear box"
on a diffrent not. does anyone know much about the "westfeild areorace" thing. i had the westfeild man trying to sell me one at the exel motor show.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/579182.htm
this one looks the part me me but the role bar doesnt look much cop but is have got flappy paddle gear box. also is it really worth what they are asking.
this one looks the part me me but the role bar doesnt look much cop but is have got flappy paddle gear box. also is it really worth what they are asking.
Dax's do tend to be a bit more expensive than most, but i have never really looked at one to see why.
Re: that rollbar, if you turn it over in a crash, you will at best be mangled. At thats the driver. The passenger? You could argue that most production convertible cars do not have rollbars, but they do not regularly get tracked, or do 100mph in 10 seconds. On that basis, it is not in my opinion worth £11k. In certain crashes, a kit car is the best place to be, all harnessed up. In others, (like being T-boned) they are the worst. But give yourself a sporting chance at least.
Re: that rollbar, if you turn it over in a crash, you will at best be mangled. At thats the driver. The passenger? You could argue that most production convertible cars do not have rollbars, but they do not regularly get tracked, or do 100mph in 10 seconds. On that basis, it is not in my opinion worth £11k. In certain crashes, a kit car is the best place to be, all harnessed up. In others, (like being T-boned) they are the worst. But give yourself a sporting chance at least.
Furyblade_Lee said:
You could argue that most production convertible cars do not have rollbars, but they do not regularly get tracked, or do 100mph in 10 seconds.
They do have a windscreen frame that can withstand 2-3 times the weight of the car though. In a kitcar, if it has a winscreen, there is no roll over protection offered by it. Your best bet is a full cage or a roll bar that extends quite a bit higher than the driver's head. Wearing a helmet will add an inch or two as well.
bugsbunny said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
You could argue that most production convertible cars do not have rollbars, but they do not regularly get tracked, or do 100mph in 10 seconds.
They do have a windscreen frame that can withstand 2-3 times the weight of the car though. a real role cage is the only way hence the aerorace. its a normal engine but i like my chances in this. from the racing iv done and seen your going to come off the track one day. id admit when i started out on 2 stroke karts i couldnt keep it on the track and when you race the contact is intering to say the least.
http://www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/SErange/aero...
http://www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/SErange/aero...
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