Kit for Honda 1.6 16v Twin Cam

[nick heppinstall]

I have a K Plate Honda Concerto which is getting a little tatty but is mechanically perfect. It's been in the family for years so has an excellent service record.

It would be great if I could use it as a doner for a kit.

I think the engine is about 158bhp without the cat so it would make for decent performance.

Cheers

[ajprice]

Not sure whether it is the same engine in the Concerto, but a GTM lists a Honda Civic 1.6 VTEC engine as an option for the Libra.

[nick heppinstall]

ajprice said:

Not sure whether it is the same engine in the Concerto, but a GTM lists a Honda Civic 1.6 VTEC engine as an option for the Libra.

Mmm... Was looking for a 7 style really...

[Sam_68]

nick heppinstall said:

Mmm... Was looking for a 7 style really...

It will cost you more to convert the engine from a transverse FWD layout to a longitudinal RWD layout than it would to simply buy a suitable engine/gearbox in the first place.

By and large, the kit car industry has moved on from being a way of recyling mechanical components from rusty old sheds and the best advice these days is to pick the kit you want then source the correct mechanical components for it, not the other way round.

If you are hell-bent on using the Concerto drivetrain, though, you'd be better off looking at transverse mid-engine RWD kits (eg. the Sylva Mojo/Riot) than a Seven.

[ajprice]

I thought the transverse engine in a 7 would be a problem, so excuse me for being thick, but how does the Ford Zetec or Rover K-Series engines fit?

Genuine question, I'm not a very technical person!

Edited by ajprice on Tuesday 9th December 12:42

[nick heppinstall]

ajprice said:

I thought the transverse engine in a 7 would be a problem, so excuse me for being thick, but how does the Ford Zetec or Rover K-Series engines fit?

Genuine question, I'm not a very technical person!

Edited by ajprice on Tuesday 9th December 12:42

sam 68 thanks for that. I'd not given that any consideration at all !! DUH ! I'd also be very interested in an answer to aj's question.

[Sam_68]

nick heppinstall said:

ajprice said:

I thought the transverse engine in a 7 would be a problem, so excuse me for being thick, but how does the Ford Zetec or Rover K-Series engines fit?

Genuine question, I'm not a very technical person!

sam 68 thanks for that. I'd not given that any consideration at all !! DUH ! I'd also be very interested in an answer to aj's question.

By using an inline gearbox from a RWD car with a suitable bellhousing, basically.

Easy(ish) for the Ford, as most european Ford engines use a standardised bolt pattern to connect engine to gearbox, so you can mix-and-match between Ford gearboxes, engines, clutches etc. to some extent.

On the Rover, you buy a very expensive special bellhousing from Caterham or someone similar, to allow the K-series engine to be bolted to a Ford (or Caterham 6-speed, if you're rich) gearbox.

The alternative is to make up an adapter plate that allows the engine to be bolted up to a suitable in-line gearbox.

Then there's often work to be done relocating ancillaries, modifying water rails, sumps etc...

All in all, it's a hell of a lot of trouble to go to for the sake of retaining a couple of hundred quids worth of engine.

Edited by Sam_68 on Tuesday 9th December 13:29

[Mr2Mike]

The big problem with the older Honda engines is that most of them rotate backwards compared to most other engines, so unless you want 5 reverse speeds it difficult to use them in a seven.

[Sam_68]

Mr2Mike said:

The big problem with the older Honda engines is that most of them rotate backwards compared to most other engines, so unless you want 5 reverse speeds it difficult to use them in a seven.

Unless you turn the diff upside down.

[Martin Keene]

Sam_68 said:

Mr2Mike said:

The big problem with the older Honda engines is that most of them rotate backwards compared to most other engines, so unless you want 5 reverse speeds it difficult to use them in a seven.

Unless you turn the diff upside down.

I've always wondered about that, the only concern I can see with it, is what the syncros and helical gears will make of being run in reverse for any length of time.

But, of course a straight cut dog box will soon cure that...

[tomTVR]

Marlin 5EXI, they are available with mounts for hondas.

[nick heppinstall]

tomTVR said:

Marlin 5EXI, they are available with mounts for hondas.

Thanks Tom. That looks interesting.

[stig mills]

You can put that Honda lump in a Mev Rocket or Sonic7. That should give you around 250bhp per ton.

[stig mills]

Aren't those engines around 130bhp?

nick heppinstall said:

I have a K Plate Honda Concerto which is getting a little tatty but is mechanically perfect. It's been in the family for years so has an excellent service record.

It would be great if I could use it as a doner for a kit.

I think the engine is about 158bhp without the cat so it would make for decent performance.

Cheers

[nick heppinstall]

stig mills said:

Aren't those engines around 130bhp?

nick heppinstall said:

I have a K Plate Honda Concerto which is getting a little tatty but is mechanically perfect. It's been in the family for years so has an excellent service record.

It would be great if I could use it as a doner for a kit.

I think the engine is about 158bhp without the cat so it would make for decent performance.

Cheers

Hi Stig. Thought I had read somewhere that they were 150 odd when de-catted. could be wrong...

[nick heppinstall]

stig mills said:

You can put that Honda lump in a Mev Rocket or Sonic7. That should give you around 250bhp per ton.

Hey I REALLY like that Sonic7 !! Even the Mrs liked it !

[Martin Keene]

nick heppinstall said:

stig mills said:

Aren't those engines around 130bhp?

nick heppinstall said:

I have a K Plate Honda Concerto which is getting a little tatty but is mechanically perfect. It's been in the family for years so has an excellent service record.

It would be great if I could use it as a doner for a kit.

I think the engine is about 158bhp without the cat so it would make for decent performance.

Cheers

Hi Stig. Thought I had read somewhere that they were 150 odd when de-catted. could be wrong...

Honda had several 1.6 litre engines of that era. The was a 16v SOHC which produced 112bhp. A 16v DOHC NON VTEC which produced 128bhp and a 16v DOHC VTEC which produced 158bhp.

[nick heppinstall]

Ah. It would be the 128bhp engine then Martin. Would it give decent performance in the Sonic ?

[lewis360]

to convert that engine to rear wheel drive you wil need to use a F20 gearbox from the honda s2000. but be warned they cost about 4 grand if you can find one and the age of your engine u will have to modify it slightly. if not just sell the car and buy either the F20 engine from the s2000 or the k20 from the civic and convert it.the k20 is what gtm offer i think