Bike engines and clutches
Discussion
Hi guys,
for those of you who have bike engined cars do you still use the clutch like you would with a normal car.
I know this is probably a very silly question but i heard that some bikes in certain gears you dont need the clutch to change gear...
The reason i ask this questions is i currently have a Brabus Roadster which is working fine at the moment but i feel in a year or so the engine may go. (currently at 57k) If it does, i'm thinking i might keep it and by a run a round and then work on replacing the engine with something with more go.
Thanks in advance.
Jord.
for those of you who have bike engined cars do you still use the clutch like you would with a normal car.
I know this is probably a very silly question but i heard that some bikes in certain gears you dont need the clutch to change gear...
The reason i ask this questions is i currently have a Brabus Roadster which is working fine at the moment but i feel in a year or so the engine may go. (currently at 57k) If it does, i'm thinking i might keep it and by a run a round and then work on replacing the engine with something with more go.
Thanks in advance.
Jord.
Yes you need the clutch just like you would in any road bike or normal car.
The clutch tends to be a little more agressive when fitted to a car I have found.
Because of the gear type you can change gear without a clutch once in first although you do still need to shut off between changes and clutchless changes tend to be a little jerky from 1st to 2nd
The clutch tends to be a little more agressive when fitted to a car I have found.
Because of the gear type you can change gear without a clutch once in first although you do still need to shut off between changes and clutchless changes tend to be a little jerky from 1st to 2nd
Good question, i asked similar before I got my first BEC.
gears on a bike are 1N23456
Typically you start in N, shift down suing the clutch into first, then drive as you would a normal car engaging the clutch with a few revs to move the car.
Then the weird special bit, you need to go from 1st to 2nd. A bike engine can tell when it is moving and thus will not allow N to be engaged 99 time out of 100, so its a straight knock between 1st and second, which totally skips neutral. then its nice and easy to third, fourth fifth and sixth. pressign the clutch in on every change as you would in a normal car.
On track, you can gun it in a low gear, get the revs really high, lift slightly of the loud pedal and then bang in the next gear without using the clutch. going down gears through shoudl use a clutch.
hoep that makes sence. there is kit out int he market that allows clutchless upa nd downs, autoblipping etc but all come ata cost.
gears on a bike are 1N23456
Typically you start in N, shift down suing the clutch into first, then drive as you would a normal car engaging the clutch with a few revs to move the car.
Then the weird special bit, you need to go from 1st to 2nd. A bike engine can tell when it is moving and thus will not allow N to be engaged 99 time out of 100, so its a straight knock between 1st and second, which totally skips neutral. then its nice and easy to third, fourth fifth and sixth. pressign the clutch in on every change as you would in a normal car.
On track, you can gun it in a low gear, get the revs really high, lift slightly of the loud pedal and then bang in the next gear without using the clutch. going down gears through shoudl use a clutch.
hoep that makes sence. there is kit out int he market that allows clutchless upa nd downs, autoblipping etc but all come ata cost.
Brabus Jord said:
...so you need the clutch for pulling away and then not much after that?
I tend to use the clutch upchanges on BEC/dog gearboxes unless I'm driving flat out, as it tends to make the change smoother. I always use the clutch on downchanges, too.If you're driving fast, though, you don't need the clutch for upchanges; just apply light pressure to the gear lever then lift the throttle slightly and the next gear will select itself.
Edited by Sam_68 on Tuesday 20th January 18:13
Sam_68 said:
Brabus Jord said:
...so you need the clutch for pulling away and then not much after that?
I tend to use the clutch on BEC/dog gearboxes unless I'm driving flat out, as it tends to make the change smoother. I always use the clutch on downchanges, too.If you're driving fast, though, you don't need the clutch for upchanges; just apply light pressure to the gear lever then lift the throttle slightly and the next gear will select itself.
Good question, i asked similar before I got my first BEC.
gears on a bike are 1N23456
Typically you start in N, shift down suing the clutch into first, then drive as you would a normal car engaging the clutch with a few revs to move the car.
Then the weird special bit, you need to go from 1st to 2nd. A bike engine can tell when it is moving and thus will not allow N to be engaged 99 time out of 100, so its a straight knock between 1st and second, which totally skips neutral. then its nice and easy to third, fourth fifth and sixth. pressign the clutch in on every change as you would in a normal car.
On track, you can gun it in a low gear, get the revs really high, lift slightly of the loud pedal and then bang in the next gear without using the clutch. going down gears through shoudl use a clutch.
hoep that makes sence. there is kit out int he market that allows clutchless upa nd downs, autoblipping etc but all come ata cost.
gears on a bike are 1N23456
Typically you start in N, shift down suing the clutch into first, then drive as you would a normal car engaging the clutch with a few revs to move the car.
Then the weird special bit, you need to go from 1st to 2nd. A bike engine can tell when it is moving and thus will not allow N to be engaged 99 time out of 100, so its a straight knock between 1st and second, which totally skips neutral. then its nice and easy to third, fourth fifth and sixth. pressign the clutch in on every change as you would in a normal car.
On track, you can gun it in a low gear, get the revs really high, lift slightly of the loud pedal and then bang in the next gear without using the clutch. going down gears through shoudl use a clutch.
hoep that makes sence. there is kit out int he market that allows clutchless upa nd downs, autoblipping etc but all come ata cost.
I think if you've come from a biking background and are more used to clutchless upchanges then it's far more natural to do it this way. I certainly found it this way on my R1 Fury.
Done right it's far less jerky (in fact zero-jerk) and less load on drivetrain generally. I've never been able to do the clutchless down-changes perfectly on the bike so never bothered in the car either.
I had a flatshifter on the bec, the benefit of this is that you don't have to "think" at all, just shift up in a smooth fashion and if you have a decent ignition cut it gives a lovely "pop" from the unburnt fuel in the exhaust, flame if you're lucky...
Done right it's far less jerky (in fact zero-jerk) and less load on drivetrain generally. I've never been able to do the clutchless down-changes perfectly on the bike so never bothered in the car either.
I had a flatshifter on the bec, the benefit of this is that you don't have to "think" at all, just shift up in a smooth fashion and if you have a decent ignition cut it gives a lovely "pop" from the unburnt fuel in the exhaust, flame if you're lucky...
Contact www.hmracing.co.uk he uses a strain gauge to "feel" when your about to change and then kills the power for a nano second. About £500 for his "quickshifter"
Moospeed said:
I think if you've come from a biking background and are more used to clutchless upchanges then it's far more natural to do it this way. I certainly found it this way on my R1 Fury.
Done right it's far less jerky (in fact zero-jerk) and less load on drivetrain generally. I've never been able to do the clutchless down-changes perfectly on the bike so never bothered in the car either.
I had a flatshifter on the bec, the benefit of this is that you don't have to "think" at all, just shift up in a smooth fashion and if you have a decent ignition cut it gives a lovely "pop" from the unburnt fuel in the exhaust, flame if you're lucky...
Yeah bikers will understand much more. If you race or mx you'll be used to 'flying gear changes' although not brill on poor clutch is near on as quick as a quickshifter. I like the idea of a quickshifter but cant justify it with how quick the std 'box change isDone right it's far less jerky (in fact zero-jerk) and less load on drivetrain generally. I've never been able to do the clutchless down-changes perfectly on the bike so never bothered in the car either.
I had a flatshifter on the bec, the benefit of this is that you don't have to "think" at all, just shift up in a smooth fashion and if you have a decent ignition cut it gives a lovely "pop" from the unburnt fuel in the exhaust, flame if you're lucky...
As for fitting in your project id go for something big in bike engines like the GSX1300 busa, ZX12/ZX14. At very least lastest gen. of R1, gixxer etc. They all make good torque pushing on some over 100 ft/lb as std. rev to silly rpm and make anything from 160-185BHP.
It all depends what yours will weigh. A good site to work out the sort of power you'll get is www.LetsTorqueBHP.com I find as long as your accurate with the input it gives a damn good performance indication.
Im going off subject here lol - anyways all things to consider!
The main think in a BEC is to uprate the clutch springs, about £30. They lose their strength in compressing the plates and cause slip. I am currently using Barnett race springs against some advice recieved (regarding binding) but they seem fine so far. I generally always use the clutch , whether upshifting or downshifting, unless on track or gunning it on the road when i just lift of the accelerator momentarily for upshifts. You will soon get the feel for it in you particular installation. Electronic shifters are good, provided they are set up properly. If they are not, premature wear will mean the end of your otherwise pretty indestructible gearbox....
Furyblade_Lee said:
The main think in a BEC is to uprate the clutch springs, about £30. They lose their strength in compressing the plates and cause slip. I am currently using Barnett race springs against some advice recieved (regarding binding) but they seem fine so far.
Are these the heavier Barnett springs ? Interested in the binding issues, although good that you are not having problems. I got some kevlar plates at the same time as the springs, which will hopefully make things less prone to problems.Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff