Kit car design - opinions wanted
Discussion
If you've got some money burning a hole in your pocket you can just send me a check.
I can’t tell you how to make a small fortune in the kit car business, but I can tell you how to make one farming; I believe they are similar – you start with a large one (ask me how I know).
The kit car business sounds all glamorous and whatnot, but there are very few who make a go of it enough to make a living. It takes lots of time and money, new designs are very difficult, and everything has to really come together (not that it CAN’T be done of course, but you need to be realistic). If I were looking for a trike, it would be a Morgan Super Sports clone, or maybe a Pembleton – something traditional.
I’m not trying to burst you bubble, but I think an electric car is going to be a tough slog. The technology is really not quite there yet. It might work for folks that are lucky enough to have incredibly short commutes, but otherwise are a waste of the planets resources (I know, that’s a strong opinion). I did quite a bit of research a couple of years ago as I was thinking maybe to go that direction with a commuter car, but it just didn’t pencil out (heavy, expensive, short range etc.). Whatever you decide, good luck and if you post some concepts and pictures you will get good honest feed back here, from what I can tell.
I can’t tell you how to make a small fortune in the kit car business, but I can tell you how to make one farming; I believe they are similar – you start with a large one (ask me how I know).
The kit car business sounds all glamorous and whatnot, but there are very few who make a go of it enough to make a living. It takes lots of time and money, new designs are very difficult, and everything has to really come together (not that it CAN’T be done of course, but you need to be realistic). If I were looking for a trike, it would be a Morgan Super Sports clone, or maybe a Pembleton – something traditional.
I’m not trying to burst you bubble, but I think an electric car is going to be a tough slog. The technology is really not quite there yet. It might work for folks that are lucky enough to have incredibly short commutes, but otherwise are a waste of the planets resources (I know, that’s a strong opinion). I did quite a bit of research a couple of years ago as I was thinking maybe to go that direction with a commuter car, but it just didn’t pencil out (heavy, expensive, short range etc.). Whatever you decide, good luck and if you post some concepts and pictures you will get good honest feed back here, from what I can tell.
As ever, the more info you can provide the more relevant the feedback will be.
My own observation generally is that unless it's an exo or very simple design, recouping your development costs - let alone making a living - is a major challenge. From some of your other posts you seem to have a profitable CF parts business justing waiting to happen so my first reaction would be to focus on that. It may not be the thing you truly love doing but if it buys you time to do that, surely it's worthwhile on that basis?
If you then build a brand doing this, the next logical step (to me at least) would be panel kits - regardless of which end of the engineering-art design spectrum you sit on, a panel kit is inherently simpler than a ground up design. (being nosey - where were you doing the degree? I've suspected that the boom in design courses isn't in fact matched by actual demand in the job market).
As regards the trikes - the first question is why a trike, what advantages does it offer? You haven't really given us much to go on terms of size etc. I'd respectfully disagree with Kenny Ray that the technology isn't ready, but the most appealing tech (Li-ion batteries, etc) is too expensive and the old faithful (Lead Acid) is for diehards prepared to overlook the (considerable) constraints. Even if there are grants out there (go check) qualifying for them may be no simple matter: your business case should not depend on them.
Other than being different, is there a market for a trackday trike? There might well be, but is it big enough to support your business? Same point as regards the last one and, leaving aside many other points, your development costs would be increased by orders of magnitude - bit of a gamble for your first project. In general, you cover a lot of ground with the non-bodykit ideas: feedback is all very well, but the focus needs tightening before this can be usefully given and only you can do that based on your background, resources, skillset etc.
My own observation generally is that unless it's an exo or very simple design, recouping your development costs - let alone making a living - is a major challenge. From some of your other posts you seem to have a profitable CF parts business justing waiting to happen so my first reaction would be to focus on that. It may not be the thing you truly love doing but if it buys you time to do that, surely it's worthwhile on that basis?
If you then build a brand doing this, the next logical step (to me at least) would be panel kits - regardless of which end of the engineering-art design spectrum you sit on, a panel kit is inherently simpler than a ground up design. (being nosey - where were you doing the degree? I've suspected that the boom in design courses isn't in fact matched by actual demand in the job market).
As regards the trikes - the first question is why a trike, what advantages does it offer? You haven't really given us much to go on terms of size etc. I'd respectfully disagree with Kenny Ray that the technology isn't ready, but the most appealing tech (Li-ion batteries, etc) is too expensive and the old faithful (Lead Acid) is for diehards prepared to overlook the (considerable) constraints. Even if there are grants out there (go check) qualifying for them may be no simple matter: your business case should not depend on them.
Other than being different, is there a market for a trackday trike? There might well be, but is it big enough to support your business? Same point as regards the last one and, leaving aside many other points, your development costs would be increased by orders of magnitude - bit of a gamble for your first project. In general, you cover a lot of ground with the non-bodykit ideas: feedback is all very well, but the focus needs tightening before this can be usefully given and only you can do that based on your background, resources, skillset etc.
dazm said:
the carbon work I do is looking to be the most viable business - it's just a matter of having the bottle to go it alone and quite the day job!
If you're already doing this it's not a complete leap into the unknown. Keep up the day job but push this as hard as you can (you're still young: sleep is optional 
), and make the jump when there aren't the hours in the day - which in itself would be a good sign... I'm actually quite partial to Morgan style trikes, but trikes generally have niche appeal and I was going to mention bikers: trikes can be driven on a bike licence but is that a big market these days? To many, a trike is exactly that: something more than a bike, but less than a car. That's OK if your target market is bikers trading up, but not so good if you're trying tempt someone out of their car. Surely broadening your designs' appeal improves its chances of success, but I'm sure there IS a market for these - problem is, VW seem to agree with you: a production L1 might be hard to compete with. (BTW, VW had what I took to be an L1 chassis on stand: CF tub with twin chassis rails front & rear - excellent base for funky C21 Messerschmitt Tiger)
As regards the buck.... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
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