Affordable, light, mid engined, closed body car.
Discussion
Hi, I was thinking about building a kit for the first time. The original option I looked at was the Banks Europa. Now Banks do a single donor smart roadster based kit. In theory you should be able to pick the donor up for sub £3k if you look at the right time on ebay. The Europa parts seem to come to about £5k.
In theory the end result of this is that you can have a sub 600kg car with 100 Bhp if you get the Smart engine re-map or use a Brabus donor - for sub £10,000.
The only thing is, having done a bit of investigation I'm getting the impression it's going to be a very difficult project to complete.
Can anyone suggest an alternative light, mid-engined, closed body kit that ca be completed for sub £10,000 ?
In theory the end result of this is that you can have a sub 600kg car with 100 Bhp if you get the Smart engine re-map or use a Brabus donor - for sub £10,000.
The only thing is, having done a bit of investigation I'm getting the impression it's going to be a very difficult project to complete.
Can anyone suggest an alternative light, mid-engined, closed body kit that ca be completed for sub £10,000 ?
I've thought about the Libra, it's supposed to be a nice handling car but I don't car for the look too much and I think the build cost on a Libra is closer to the £20k mark.
I don't really know a lot about them having said that - apart from that they tend to use V-Tech or K-series engines - what donor parts or needed, weight, performance specifications I have no idea about.
I don't really know a lot about them having said that - apart from that they tend to use V-Tech or K-series engines - what donor parts or needed, weight, performance specifications I have no idea about.
Why not simply get an S2 Europa 'project' and rebuild it with subtle Banks/Spyder mods and upgrades where appropriate?
Would have the advantage of absurdly cheap classic insurance, no road tax and no IVA test required to register it, and as an 'original' classic Lotus it would appreciate in value, too.
Would have the advantage of absurdly cheap classic insurance, no road tax and no IVA test required to register it, and as an 'original' classic Lotus it would appreciate in value, too.
I did think of that, but a rusty old Europa chassis with crumling 1960's running gear is a bit of a put off. I'd really like to go with a type 62 S Shell so the engine and the bonnet clam-shell off for easy access, and you can't get a classic lotus type 62.
It would be a cheap option - Europa's go for less than £5k for runners, it's just I'd probably end up in the long tun only saving on the body shell and as it would be an S2 rather than a 62 it wouldn't be the one I really wanted anyway.
It would be a cheap option - Europa's go for less than £5k for runners, it's just I'd probably end up in the long tun only saving on the body shell and as it would be an S2 rather than a 62 it wouldn't be the one I really wanted anyway.
Why not buy a K-series Libra for about £6k (you can get a good one for that!!, the cheapest I know sold for £4k... ), take it apart and put it back together again how you want it? No IVA test, and you could re-engineer a Honda TypeR (190bhp from a DC2 Integra, that one will fit in the standard tub )engine into it if you wished. Not technically a new kit but you will end up with a stonkingly good car for less than £10k. I think rebuilding kitcars will become a popular option in the near future due to their current low cost and the price of new builds.
How about just buying a Toyota MR2 and tricking it out. It's not a scratch build, but... it's your first go-round so you could learn a lot about it abd then get a kit that will use the MR2 running gear, or at least the 4AGE. By then you'll have the cash to get and open roadster for building (which I think is a lot less complicated than going 'closed'.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Why not buy a K-series Libra for about £6k (you can get a good one for that!!, the cheapest I know sold for £4k... ), take it apart and put it back together again how you want it? No IVA test, and you could re-engineer a Honda TypeR (190bhp from a DC2 Integra, that one will fit in the standard tub )engine into it if you wished. Not technically a new kit but you will end up with a stonkingly good car for less than £10k. I think rebuilding kitcars will become a popular option in the near future due to their current low cost and the price of new builds.
This is actually a brilliant idea. Avoids the IVA and most of the Libras I've seen are in very good nick.magpies said:
I know someone that is building RS200's using MR2 complete floorpan and running gear - engine in correct place (but transverse) turbo version easy 300 bhp weighs about 1100kg
and below 10k
This sounds tempting! I love the shape of the RS200, and the clam-shell rear would make it very easy to work on. Its heavier than I'd like, I like the way you can drive a really light car - bu very interesting none the less. Do you have any links or more information?and below 10k
Arthur Jackson said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
Why not buy a K-series Libra for about £6k (you can get a good one for that!!, the cheapest I know sold for £4k... ), take it apart and put it back together again how you want it? No IVA test, and you could re-engineer a Honda TypeR (190bhp from a DC2 Integra, that one will fit in the standard tub )engine into it if you wished. Not technically a new kit but you will end up with a stonkingly good car for less than £10k. I think rebuilding kitcars will become a popular option in the near future due to their current low cost and the price of new builds.
This is actually a brilliant idea. Avoids the IVA and most of the Libras I've seen are in very good nick.Furyblade_Lee said:
I think rebuilding kitcars will become a popular option in the near future due to their current low cost and the price of new builds.
Too right! I've been seriously tempted myself a few times recently. It would be no good going for something like an Indy or any of the more recent, more popular kits, though, not if you were looking for a good overall cost. The sort of thing I find myself looking at is Duttons and other less popular types.If I ever did a Dutton I reckon I could improve it a LOT, and the looks don't bother me, in fact I think the Phaeton front ends are ok, and more aerodynamic thaqn cycle wings.
The main thing is I want a hard top as it will be an all-weather drive and I hate fiddly hoods. I had an MX5 and that was great but I don't expect many kit cars to be quite as easy.
There don't appear to be any GTM on the Pistonheads classifeds at the moment and the only one I saw recently for sale was the factory demonstrator on the GTM site and that one was a SPyder and quite expensive...
Definately a thought though... Although a decent RS200 rep would be very tempting...
There don't appear to be any GTM on the Pistonheads classifeds at the moment and the only one I saw recently for sale was the factory demonstrator on the GTM site and that one was a SPyder and quite expensive...
Definately a thought though... Although a decent RS200 rep would be very tempting...
Is there any more info on this RS200 Replica? I've more or less ruled out building a GTM, I think it would cost about £15k to finish one to a good standard, and you still have a car with Metro running gear. Plus sourcing the donor parts from different cars is a bit of a put off.
I'd really like to know a bit more about the Smart based Banks Europa Project, but speaking to Banks at the moment appears to be difficult. Not that they are being difficult - it's just they appear to be very busy at the moment, which in some respects is a good advert for the project. Of course you don't really want to get so far into the build and find something doesn't fit right or make sense and want somebody to speak to who has done it before, only to find you can rarely speak to them for any length of time.
Particularly the things I want to know are:-
1. Can you use a Type 62 body with the clam shells on the Smart modified Chassis? Or are you stuck to a S1/S2/Type 47 body?
2. Do you get anything resembling a build manual or is it a case of buy chassis, bodywork and donor smart and get transferring?
3. Will either a Smart roadster coupe or roadster do for the donor?
4. What other bits are needed to finish apart from the chassis, europa body work and smart donor?
5. How difficult is the finished car to IVA/SVA once finished?
6. Roughly how many hours should it probably take to complete?
7. Is it possible to break the cost down and buy as you build, for example buy the chassis - start transferring, buy the cabin part - start transferring, then buy the front and rear clamshells when you are ready to finish.
8. Is it possible to buy the body work in a gel-coat that doesn't require painting or do all body work options requirre painting?
~ I realise some of these are very difficult to answer, but if anyone has nay opinions on these matters it would be appreciated.
I'd really like to know a bit more about the Smart based Banks Europa Project, but speaking to Banks at the moment appears to be difficult. Not that they are being difficult - it's just they appear to be very busy at the moment, which in some respects is a good advert for the project. Of course you don't really want to get so far into the build and find something doesn't fit right or make sense and want somebody to speak to who has done it before, only to find you can rarely speak to them for any length of time.
Particularly the things I want to know are:-
1. Can you use a Type 62 body with the clam shells on the Smart modified Chassis? Or are you stuck to a S1/S2/Type 47 body?
2. Do you get anything resembling a build manual or is it a case of buy chassis, bodywork and donor smart and get transferring?
3. Will either a Smart roadster coupe or roadster do for the donor?
4. What other bits are needed to finish apart from the chassis, europa body work and smart donor?
5. How difficult is the finished car to IVA/SVA once finished?
6. Roughly how many hours should it probably take to complete?
7. Is it possible to break the cost down and buy as you build, for example buy the chassis - start transferring, buy the cabin part - start transferring, then buy the front and rear clamshells when you are ready to finish.
8. Is it possible to buy the body work in a gel-coat that doesn't require painting or do all body work options requirre painting?
~ I realise some of these are very difficult to answer, but if anyone has nay opinions on these matters it would be appreciated.
If your reasons for writing off the Libra are the Metro running gear then you should know it doesn't use Metro running gear.
In standard form it uses 2 sets of Metro front hubs and drive flanges. The rest is all bespoke double wishbones and trailing arms. Other parts include MGTF LHD steering rack, Honda K20 or K Series 4 or 6 pot engine, gearbox and drive shafts, Metro heater.
Mine has the Z Cars rear conversion so even fewer donor parts.
In standard form it uses 2 sets of Metro front hubs and drive flanges. The rest is all bespoke double wishbones and trailing arms. Other parts include MGTF LHD steering rack, Honda K20 or K Series 4 or 6 pot engine, gearbox and drive shafts, Metro heater.
Mine has the Z Cars rear conversion so even fewer donor parts.
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