Advice please - My Engine upgrade options.
Discussion
I am currently running a standard 2.0l zetec in my Stylus. It's producing 176bhp with injection.
I will be sprinting it mainly (may do some open races) next year. However the engine is a very early unit (late 80s) & I have done track days & sprinted occasionally over the last 12 years.
I am looking about £2-2.5k ish for an upgrade.
So do I get it rebuilt with a reasonable head & looking at 225bhp.
Or go V6 Duratec. May be more power in standard form but with perhaps better torque? I dont think changing to a 2.0 or 2.3l Duratec alone is worth it.
Turbo or Supercharge the current zetec. Probably cost more but if its reliable with obscene power may be worth thinking about.
As Im in the 2.0L plus class anything goes as far as engine/turbo options are concerned.
Dont want to do the bike route. Or are there better options?
I am on a Trans X T9 box but standard escort live axle.
Cheers
I will be sprinting it mainly (may do some open races) next year. However the engine is a very early unit (late 80s) & I have done track days & sprinted occasionally over the last 12 years.
I am looking about £2-2.5k ish for an upgrade.
So do I get it rebuilt with a reasonable head & looking at 225bhp.
Or go V6 Duratec. May be more power in standard form but with perhaps better torque? I dont think changing to a 2.0 or 2.3l Duratec alone is worth it.
Turbo or Supercharge the current zetec. Probably cost more but if its reliable with obscene power may be worth thinking about.
As Im in the 2.0L plus class anything goes as far as engine/turbo options are concerned.
Dont want to do the bike route. Or are there better options?
I am on a Trans X T9 box but standard escort live axle.
Cheers
If it was me I would do the turbo option, although it may be that your class of motorsport might be better served with a supercharger, quicker throttle response, but less ultimate power.
My approach would be to spend the money on the turbo (or supercharger) and the associated ancillary equipment, including the ecu, and to treat the engine itself as disposable, in other words, blow it up, get another, although it might be better in the long run to fit stronger rods and lower compression pistons!
My approach would be to spend the money on the turbo (or supercharger) and the associated ancillary equipment, including the ecu, and to treat the engine itself as disposable, in other words, blow it up, get another, although it might be better in the long run to fit stronger rods and lower compression pistons!
I would guess the class is likely to change if you go forced induction but it would of course depend on what series you're itending to run in (possibly the same story with the 2.3 duratech)
I would also guess that the v6 would be too heavy (especially considering the price you could probably get the same relible HP out of a duratech)
I would also guess that the v6 would be too heavy (especially considering the price you could probably get the same relible HP out of a duratech)
Class is not an issue, as the cut off point is 1700cc in most cases. So I am already in the "everything else group".
I am led to believe the Duratec is fairly light (as its an ally block). So an upgrade to a V6 only really carries a slight penalty and an extra exhaust. And I would go for the Jag 3.0l duratec. I understand these can produce 275bhp with free exhaust, jenvey's & mapping, without spending on the engine.
After some reading I found out that turbos are only allowed if a car had a particular engine-turbo fitted as standard. I dont know if a turbo zetec was used in a production car. So I may fall foul on this front. This only aplies to some championships & kit cars are normally free anyway.
The suspension & brakes where upgraded this year. That is not to say they cant be improved.
I think some power to weights calcs may be the answer.
As of this years competition. Tuned V8 westies, race duratecs, K series & TVRs.
Thanks for suggestions & input so far.
I am led to believe the Duratec is fairly light (as its an ally block). So an upgrade to a V6 only really carries a slight penalty and an extra exhaust. And I would go for the Jag 3.0l duratec. I understand these can produce 275bhp with free exhaust, jenvey's & mapping, without spending on the engine.
After some reading I found out that turbos are only allowed if a car had a particular engine-turbo fitted as standard. I dont know if a turbo zetec was used in a production car. So I may fall foul on this front. This only aplies to some championships & kit cars are normally free anyway.
The suspension & brakes where upgraded this year. That is not to say they cant be improved.
I think some power to weights calcs may be the answer.
As of this years competition. Tuned V8 westies, race duratecs, K series & TVRs.
Thanks for suggestions & input so far.
Kevp, as I'm sure you've read on the Stylus site, I've just gone for a SR20, it is fantastic, getting somthing like 320BHP, and no problems fitting apart from an even bigger bonnet bulge, I've got a S4 Esprt engine with a fabricated manifold and engine mounts to fit a Sylva I want to get rid of.
Berw said:
Kevp, as I'm sure you've read on the Stylus site, I've just gone for a SR20, it is fantastic, getting somthing like 320BHP, and no problems fitting apart from an even bigger bonnet bulge, I've got a S4 Esprt engine with a fabricated manifold and engine mounts to fit a Sylva I want to get rid of.
Kelvin, I have been following your reports on the SR20. I didnt suggest that route myself as I dont understand the implications, costs or even the time frame to sort it. However it would be good to get your views on drive-ability etc with that amount of power and handling with regards to the circuit.Likewise I know little of the Esprit engine. What gearbox & bellhousing do you use. The Stylus bonnet is quite high compared to the Fury so may only require a slight bump in it. But is not the other side of the world?
Thanks
The Black Flash said:
The v6 duratec is an iron block, very large, and very heavy, IIRC.
No, it's all alloy quite small (for a V6) and reasonably light. However I would turbo the zetec, or go duratec.Zetec turbo was supplied in the Mk1 focus RS, though confusingly badged as a duratec, 300ish bhp is reasonably easily achievable.
2.3 turbo duratec from a mazda 3 or 6 MPS would be fun.
Cabinet Enforcer said:
The Black Flash said:
The v6 duratec is an iron block, very large, and very heavy, IIRC.
No, it's all alloy quite small (for a V6) and reasonably light. However I would turbo the zetec, or go duratec.Zetec turbo was supplied in the Mk1 focus RS, though confusingly badged as a duratec, 300ish bhp is reasonably easily achievable.
2.3 turbo duratec from a mazda 3 or 6 MPS would be fun.
Chris.
For that kind of budget I would think a ported big valve head, steel rods, wilder cams and a good rolling road session would be the best value approach. 225bhp in a well set up light weight car would be competitive against V8 Westies and TVRs. The K series and Duratec cars will be lighter and probably turn in better due to less weight up front but no reason a Zetec shouldn't give them a run for their money. I compete in the Lotus 7 Club speed championship in a 226bhp K-series car and it's certainly not the car that is keeping me off the podium! There are some 170/180 bhp Zetec cars competing and they aren't far behind me.
If you have more to spend then an LSD would be a good investment.
If you have more to spend then an LSD would be a good investment.
Kev. my Phoenix was built from my old Lotus Sunbeam so I ran the full engine grear box and axil from that, then changed from the Sunbeam block to a Esprit S4 block, but gave up on the Lotus engine as the bits are expensive and took a long time to get to me, and went for the Sr20, can't get a power reading as it is to light to keep traction on the Dyno above 5,000, but we calculate around 315 bhp at the flywheel,ran it at Sepang last week and brakes are no longer up to it, but lapped in 3.40 including two trips in the run of strip at turns 4 and 9, when my foot went to the floor, so target is 2.25.
My mechanic rang me yeterday and said he had seen a S14 engine and box for 900 pounds, and did I want it as a spare, it is agood fit in the chassie, but bonnet needed alot of mods, testing again on Sunday, looks like a strong light engin, I am hoping to get it weighed this week end.It out accelerated everything at the track, and there are alot of Evo type thing here, absolutaly eat a new m6, and they cost over 200,000 poubds here.
My mechanic rang me yeterday and said he had seen a S14 engine and box for 900 pounds, and did I want it as a spare, it is agood fit in the chassie, but bonnet needed alot of mods, testing again on Sunday, looks like a strong light engin, I am hoping to get it weighed this week end.It out accelerated everything at the track, and there are alot of Evo type thing here, absolutaly eat a new m6, and they cost over 200,000 poubds here.
Well at the moment my thoughts are to stay with the zetec. I can get a cheap engine & have that rebuilt whilst still running the current one, then swap. It means the car work is done. It seems that the chassis (in its standard form) can only really cope with up to 250bhp, from what I read on other forums & posts.
Kelvin, 1st - thanks for offering me the engine you cant get spares for, & when you do they cost buckets.
2nd - you seem to be spoilt with Sepang as your local circuit. My competing is Llandow, Curborough and single track hillclimb venues. So lightness & initial responce are perhaps my priority over outright power.
I am unsure about the duratec route. I know its lighter & a tad more powerful, but the cost of changing the exhaust. New bellhousing (do they go on a T9?) & inlet manifold (are my jenvey's up to it?). The time issue is as important to my as keeping the cost sensable.
Thanks for all the input.
Kelvin, 1st - thanks for offering me the engine you cant get spares for, & when you do they cost buckets.
2nd - you seem to be spoilt with Sepang as your local circuit. My competing is Llandow, Curborough and single track hillclimb venues. So lightness & initial responce are perhaps my priority over outright power.
I am unsure about the duratec route. I know its lighter & a tad more powerful, but the cost of changing the exhaust. New bellhousing (do they go on a T9?) & inlet manifold (are my jenvey's up to it?). The time issue is as important to my as keeping the cost sensable.
Thanks for all the input.
FWIW I got fed up with my old zetec that has some bore wear problems and needed replacing. It was running about 195bhp but since running it with very low oil pressure for 5000 miles (don't ask!) its given up the ghost.
I went through all the optiond and ended up plumping for a brand new zetec black top for £650.
I then sent it to mr Paul Dunnell who is currently turning it into a 230 bhp motor for me.
Its cost a few quid, but means I can keep my Raceline sump, water rail and custom exhaust manifold etc.
Going to Duratec would have meant swapping exhaust side over which would have been too much work.
The upside going from silver top to black, is larger inlet valves and solid lifters.
Negatives are - cams aren't interchangeable, water pump rotation isn't such an easy fix as on silver top and you need to re-use and modify the oil scraper plate from the silver top as the black top has a 2 peice sump setup.
I went through all the optiond and ended up plumping for a brand new zetec black top for £650.
I then sent it to mr Paul Dunnell who is currently turning it into a 230 bhp motor for me.
Its cost a few quid, but means I can keep my Raceline sump, water rail and custom exhaust manifold etc.
Going to Duratec would have meant swapping exhaust side over which would have been too much work.
The upside going from silver top to black, is larger inlet valves and solid lifters.
Negatives are - cams aren't interchangeable, water pump rotation isn't such an easy fix as on silver top and you need to re-use and modify the oil scraper plate from the silver top as the black top has a 2 peice sump setup.
Thanks Alex, I always wondered about the silver to black top differences.
My existing zetec has the origonal water pump running backwards. I have had the engine in a Westfield (that I sprinted & track days, as well as using regularly)for a few years, and now in the Stylus. Never any overheating issues. The car spent 1.5 days on the rolling road to get sorted & the temp was stable all the time.
Duratec convertion. For me the pain is a new bellhousing (although it would be alloy),and the hydrulic clutch. swaping exhaust is a new manifold & downpipe (assuming I can keep the rest). And I guess a new inlet manifold. So I have to spend a lot of time & money before even starting on the engine. Time to cut my losses I think.
My existing zetec has the origonal water pump running backwards. I have had the engine in a Westfield (that I sprinted & track days, as well as using regularly)for a few years, and now in the Stylus. Never any overheating issues. The car spent 1.5 days on the rolling road to get sorted & the temp was stable all the time.
Duratec convertion. For me the pain is a new bellhousing (although it would be alloy),and the hydrulic clutch. swaping exhaust is a new manifold & downpipe (assuming I can keep the rest). And I guess a new inlet manifold. So I have to spend a lot of time & money before even starting on the engine. Time to cut my losses I think.
Ok found this one on pistonheads. http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1355034.htm
I run a silvertop at the mo & this is black. Are the manifolds the same?
Is this reasonable or should I just send mine off.
I run a silvertop at the mo & this is black. Are the manifolds the same?
Is this reasonable or should I just send mine off.
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