Westfield - Help with X-flow to Zetec Conversion
Discussion
I am asking on behalf of a mate - he is not very internet savvy and is struggling to get the required help he needs - of course I've told him that I'll try help!
Car is an early 90's Westfield SE with a 1600cc Crossflow. He bought it two years ago as a basket case and is now a nicely finished (relative to budget) example - its been fully stripped, all refinished and painted, wiring all re-done, new Ford 'Asbo Orange' paint job etc etc.
However the engines been a source of problems - Carbs need balancing quite regulalry, theres been issues with the starter motor engaging despite various mods to the sump and mounting arangement, etc etc.
We're looking at doing a really basic Zetec conversion, and are trying to work out whats possible.
We have a 'known good' 2 ltr Zetec out of an early Mondeo, complete with Loom etc.
Obviously we are well aware that we could get throttle bodies, standalone megasquirt/emerald etc etc, and there are kits available to do this - but then we are talking about doubling the amount of money thats been put into the car.
So really we would like to take the Mondeo Loom, chop it down, and run the engine 'as is' on its standard inlet manifold, existing Ford ECU etc. Even the standard power (130ish bhp realistically?) will be an improvement, but more importantly we hope to improve drivability, economy, hot-starting etc etc.
Has anyone done this? What is involved?
Where can I find the information? (I dont 'know' Westfields much so I'm not up on the best sources of information as I would be with my cars.)
Car is an early 90's Westfield SE with a 1600cc Crossflow. He bought it two years ago as a basket case and is now a nicely finished (relative to budget) example - its been fully stripped, all refinished and painted, wiring all re-done, new Ford 'Asbo Orange' paint job etc etc.
However the engines been a source of problems - Carbs need balancing quite regulalry, theres been issues with the starter motor engaging despite various mods to the sump and mounting arangement, etc etc.
We're looking at doing a really basic Zetec conversion, and are trying to work out whats possible.
We have a 'known good' 2 ltr Zetec out of an early Mondeo, complete with Loom etc.
Obviously we are well aware that we could get throttle bodies, standalone megasquirt/emerald etc etc, and there are kits available to do this - but then we are talking about doubling the amount of money thats been put into the car.
So really we would like to take the Mondeo Loom, chop it down, and run the engine 'as is' on its standard inlet manifold, existing Ford ECU etc. Even the standard power (130ish bhp realistically?) will be an improvement, but more importantly we hope to improve drivability, economy, hot-starting etc etc.
Has anyone done this? What is involved?
Where can I find the information? (I dont 'know' Westfields much so I'm not up on the best sources of information as I would be with my cars.)
Some aspects of that job I can help with, although I already had TBs and ECU running on the Xflow before I converted, so mine was a purely mechanical coversion.
You'll need a low-line sump of some sort. If you can TIG weld aluminium, it's DIYable, if not, Scholar do a modified stock sump at reasonable cost or Raceline make a custom one for more cost. Exhaust manifold will need changing/adapting. Alternator will need sorting, best to remove everything except the alternator, move it to the right side of the engine and fit an Escort water pump (Mondeo pump is driven off back of belt so runs backwards if you do a simple 3-point belt run). Engine mounts will probably need moving on the chassis. For the engine side, I bought some from Westfield. I had clearnace issues with oil filter and steering column so ended up doing a remote filter setup. I also went from 4 speed rocket to 5 speed type 9 'box so had to move the gearbox mount as well. Err....water pipework will need sorting. You may be able to retain the Ford stat housing, but probably not. If not, you'll need something to replace it. Again, it's DIYable if you have the urge, or there are options from the likes of Raceline and Retro Ford etc. Ideally a lighter flywheel frmo the 1.8 is good too, but not essential.
TBH...it's the details that will add up, not the basics. Well worth the effort though. Once you have the basics done, later conversion to TBs and decent exhaust should see 170bhp from an otherwise bog-stock 2l.
Have a mooch over on the WSCC site too.
HTH
You'll need a low-line sump of some sort. If you can TIG weld aluminium, it's DIYable, if not, Scholar do a modified stock sump at reasonable cost or Raceline make a custom one for more cost. Exhaust manifold will need changing/adapting. Alternator will need sorting, best to remove everything except the alternator, move it to the right side of the engine and fit an Escort water pump (Mondeo pump is driven off back of belt so runs backwards if you do a simple 3-point belt run). Engine mounts will probably need moving on the chassis. For the engine side, I bought some from Westfield. I had clearnace issues with oil filter and steering column so ended up doing a remote filter setup. I also went from 4 speed rocket to 5 speed type 9 'box so had to move the gearbox mount as well. Err....water pipework will need sorting. You may be able to retain the Ford stat housing, but probably not. If not, you'll need something to replace it. Again, it's DIYable if you have the urge, or there are options from the likes of Raceline and Retro Ford etc. Ideally a lighter flywheel frmo the 1.8 is good too, but not essential.
TBH...it's the details that will add up, not the basics. Well worth the effort though. Once you have the basics done, later conversion to TBs and decent exhaust should see 170bhp from an otherwise bog-stock 2l.
Have a mooch over on the WSCC site too.
HTH
Many thanks -
Part of the reason he's been able to build the car up nicely on a budget is because he(and me previously but moved on since) worked somewhere with all the neccessary gear to do all kinds of things - on the existing engine we have skimmed the flywheel, modified and welded the sump, made engine mounts etc.
Any wleding/fabricating/machining is not a problem at all.
Really useful info though - I'll do some more digging.
The main part we are stuck on is regarding the actual running off the engine - ie whether it is as obvious as we think it might be and we just chop down the original loom and run the engine effectively just as it was in the Mondeo.
ETA we've also already done a conversion form a 4spd to a 5spd type 9 on the Crossflow engine, so I presume thats just a bolt on?
Anyone else?
Part of the reason he's been able to build the car up nicely on a budget is because he(and me previously but moved on since) worked somewhere with all the neccessary gear to do all kinds of things - on the existing engine we have skimmed the flywheel, modified and welded the sump, made engine mounts etc.
Any wleding/fabricating/machining is not a problem at all.
Really useful info though - I'll do some more digging.
The main part we are stuck on is regarding the actual running off the engine - ie whether it is as obvious as we think it might be and we just chop down the original loom and run the engine effectively just as it was in the Mondeo.
ETA we've also already done a conversion form a 4spd to a 5spd type 9 on the Crossflow engine, so I presume thats just a bolt on?
Anyone else?
Edited by snotrag on Friday 26th February 11:45
I stripped back a 2.0L Black Top and fitted it to a Tiger R6 a few years ago. I then ran a Webcon Alpha twin carb/ecu set up on the car. From what I remember the original inlet 'gubbins' was quite baulky. Is there room in the Westie engine bay? Also, will the Ford ECU run the engine OK without some of the inputs it may get when installed in a Mondeo? I'm thinking Lambda and Inertia Switch (if the Mondeo has one?) inputs. There are bound to be other hidden inputs that these modern cars use/need that feed into the ECU. I just think it may be worth asking the question before you get too far in. It may well be worth looking at an after market setup not only for ease of installation but also the big power gains.
Good luck with it.
Paul.B
Good luck with it.
Paul.B
Will it have the PATS immobiliser? If so you will either need to get it bypassed or you will need the key, ignition lock and the thing that picks up the signal from the key.
I think it will probably be doable, and you should get good power because of the shorter (noisier) inlet tract and the better (also noisier) exhaust system. I think it would definitely be worth a try, I expect you will actually need to try it yourselves to see if you can make it work, then have a Megasquirt system as a fallback if it doesn't.
I think it will probably be doable, and you should get good power because of the shorter (noisier) inlet tract and the better (also noisier) exhaust system. I think it would definitely be worth a try, I expect you will actually need to try it yourselves to see if you can make it work, then have a Megasquirt system as a fallback if it doesn't.
Don`t bother with the standard inlet system,get some 45 webbers on at the very least.
It`s a well worth conversion imo,but if it were me i`d go straight to r1 power.
Having said that i love my silvertop 2ltr zetec,had it two years and still not bored!
Maybe next year a ported head and cams are on the cards.
Cheers
Lee.
It`s a well worth conversion imo,but if it were me i`d go straight to r1 power.
Having said that i love my silvertop 2ltr zetec,had it two years and still not bored!
Maybe next year a ported head and cams are on the cards.
Cheers
Lee.
singlecoil said:
... and you should get good power because of the shorter (noisier) inlet tract ...
A shorter inlet tract won't give 'more power'. It will move the natural inlet frequency up the rev band. On std cams it would probably reduce the amount of power and torque available at low revs.Edited by Paul Drawmer on Saturday 27th February 12:25
Paul Drawmer said:
singlecoil said:
... and you should get good power because of the shorter (noisier) inlet tract ...
A shorter inlet tract won't give 'more power'. It will move the natural inlet frequency up the rev band. On std cams it would probably reduce the amount of power and torque available at low revs.Paul Drawmer said:
singlecoil said:
... and you should get good power because of the shorter (noisier) inlet tract ...
A shorter inlet tract won't give 'more power'. It will move the natural inlet frequency up the rev band. On std cams it would probably reduce the amount of power and torque available at low revs.singlecoil said:
Paul Drawmer said:
singlecoil said:
... and you should get good power because of the shorter (noisier) inlet tract ...
A shorter inlet tract won't give 'more power'. It will move the natural inlet frequency up the rev band. On std cams it would probably reduce the amount of power and torque available at low revs.Paul Drawmer said:
singlecoil said:
Paul Drawmer said:
singlecoil said:
... and you should get good power because of the shorter (noisier) inlet tract ...
A shorter inlet tract won't give 'more power'. It will move the natural inlet frequency up the rev band. On std cams it would probably reduce the amount of power and torque available at low revs.
Edited by singlecoil on Saturday 27th February 12:17
Not being an expert but I have several friends who've used bike throttle bodies? with some specific Ecu that must be set up for the job - because it's plug in and go. Some guy near us Dave College is quite well known for these kind of mod's to Zetecs and Duratecs!
I know the poster did'nt want to throw money about - but having seen the difference of a stock 2ltr zetec and one with this mod seems worth it to me the way I'd go if I built a Westfield which might be on the cards some time.
I Imagen - bike throttle bodies from breakers etc.. are cheaper than buying a specific car set? - I know the cost with inlet manifold etc.. would add up but my fiend is a skin flint and he must have done it really cheap? In a mark one escort - goes like a ........
That said I do not know how much better than decent Carbs they are - I would expect a little bit but possibly not a whole lot?
I know the poster did'nt want to throw money about - but having seen the difference of a stock 2ltr zetec and one with this mod seems worth it to me the way I'd go if I built a Westfield which might be on the cards some time.
I Imagen - bike throttle bodies from breakers etc.. are cheaper than buying a specific car set? - I know the cost with inlet manifold etc.. would add up but my fiend is a skin flint and he must have done it really cheap? In a mark one escort - goes like a ........
That said I do not know how much better than decent Carbs they are - I would expect a little bit but possibly not a whole lot?
Edited by The Real Stig on Saturday 27th February 14:12
There's no doubt that throttle bodies from a bike engine and a megasquirt ecu could be a good set-up, though users often find the mapping a little tricky (but there are plenty of maps on the internet to provide a good start point).
The option of starting with the existing set-up is worth exploring as a first step though. There's an Indy fitted with a Ford 2ltr twin cam 8valve in my workshop at the moment running with an original engine and ecu, and a standard manifold with an induction kit. It runs very well as is, plenty of torque at low rpm and (I expect) a decent top end too.
I know it isn't either a zetec or a zetec ecu, but the set-up in question has many similarities, and was the last engine fitted to Sierras (the model before the Mondeo first came out). The loom used is the one from the Sierra, much of it has been bundled up and held with cable ties, and the instruments are also the original ones (all in one unit as in the Ford).
The option of starting with the existing set-up is worth exploring as a first step though. There's an Indy fitted with a Ford 2ltr twin cam 8valve in my workshop at the moment running with an original engine and ecu, and a standard manifold with an induction kit. It runs very well as is, plenty of torque at low rpm and (I expect) a decent top end too.
I know it isn't either a zetec or a zetec ecu, but the set-up in question has many similarities, and was the last engine fitted to Sierras (the model before the Mondeo first came out). The loom used is the one from the Sierra, much of it has been bundled up and held with cable ties, and the instruments are also the original ones (all in one unit as in the Ford).
How much do you want for the x flow if its for sale?
I used to have a westie, sold it to a mate, and its been in storage for a few years now.
Its my intention to liberate it from him, ans the engine would be most useful to be honest.
If its up for sale, please let me know.
Oh, and any other westfield sei builders with any good advise please let me know, its going to be a long summer
I used to have a westie, sold it to a mate, and its been in storage for a few years now.
Its my intention to liberate it from him, ans the engine would be most useful to be honest.
If its up for sale, please let me know.
Oh, and any other westfield sei builders with any good advise please let me know, its going to be a long summer
thats whats in it now- 711m with a baffled sump. twin 40 dellorto's and stage 2 head.
Would certainly be interested though- as i said, its been sat in a container for over 2 years, to its best to sort things thoroughly before we get it back on the road
Let me know though, much appreciated
Would certainly be interested though- as i said, its been sat in a container for over 2 years, to its best to sort things thoroughly before we get it back on the road
Let me know though, much appreciated
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