Websites

[rdodger]

Is it just me or do we all think that a lot of manufacturers websites are a little lacking?

I want to see lots of pictures of chassis, suspension, brakes, different engine installations etc.

I want detail and spec, not just pretty pictures of complete cars.

I would have thought most customers/ potential customers would want this information as we tend to be those kind of people (anoraks).

[Steve_D]

Your criticism assumes manufacturers have lots of spare time and money to maintain really nice web sites.
I assure you this is not the case. We would love to put more into our own site but we do not have the spare time or cash to pay someone else to do it.

Steve

[rdodger]

I wasn't really a criticism and I don't doubt manufacturers have a lot to do and have to work hard at making the stuff to make a profit.

I have found a lot of sites are pretty good, just the content doesn't provide what I want or what I would expect others would want to see.

[yazza54]

I've found that, and I've got to be honest, a website is a good investment. A lot of people get put off the actual company just because of a poor website.

[robcollingridge]

rdodger said:

Is it just me or do we all think that a lot of manufacturers websites are a little lacking?

I want to see lots of pictures of chassis, suspension, brakes, different engine installations etc.

I want detail and spec, not just pretty pictures of complete cars.

I would have thought most customers/ potential customers would want this information as we tend to be those kind of people (anoraks).

Tell me about it! To be fair to Fisher Sports Cars at the time, their site was OK but there wasn't enough info to really help me make a decision. I relied on friends and other build sites to help me out and that was one of the reasons I put together my own build site in such detail, to help others out looking to build the same car.

It's hugely time consuming and kit manufacturers just don't have the time to spare to do it properly. The ironic thing is, that they could probably save time answering the same old potential customer questions, if they could find the time to do it though.

Rob
http://www.robcollingridge.com/FuryR1/

Edited by robcollingridge on Friday 14th May 08:02

[Paul Drawmer]

Steve_D said:

Your criticism assumes manufacturers have lots of spare time and money to maintain really nice web sites.
I assure you this is not the case. We would love to put more into our own site but we do not have the spare time or cash to pay someone else to do it.

Steve

I don't agree with you on this.

Roger's criticism assumes that manufacturers recognise that a significant proportion of genuine enquiries will be made via a visits to a website so that a prospective purchaser may gain information about the product.

Whilst it is true that the vast majority of visits to a web site will be the equivalent of the showroom 'timewaster', it is also true that for the technically 'savvy' the first approach to get more information is very likely to be via the internet.

Having an up to date, informative web site is not a luxury; it is the first way the many prospective buyers will try to find out about your product. It is cheaper to produce and easier to maintain than a printed brochure. Initial enquiries can be satisfied without answering the phone and it's open 24hrs.

If you don't have an up to date website, then how do you expect prospective customers to find out about your products?

If you hear about an XYZ thingummy that might be interesting or might be a solution, how actually do you find out about it?

[thescamper]

Agree with Paul and Roger, a web site does not have to be flash with all the latest video tricks and stuff, it just needs to be well laid out easy to navigate and have the up to date info. A gallery of pictures showing the kit in various stages of build is not that difficult to do.

Make the site quick to access coz that first 20 seconds is when you lose a prospective customer.

[singlecoil]

I'm with Steve on this one, especially as I don't think potential kit car customers are in quite the same category as people looking for average consumer items. Those people will almost certainly know something about the car in question already, and be mostly interested in hard details such as prices and kit contents.

It wouldn't hurt for the manufacturers to put in some links to some build diaries, though I think a lot of them do that.

Edited by singlecoil on Friday 14th May 19:02

[Paul Drawmer]

singlecoil said:

... Those people will almost certainly know something about the car in question already ...

Where did they get that info from?

Actually I'd like to know where did p/h kit car owners get their buying decision information from?

I bought my Libra because in 2002 I saw the tub with the suspension hung on it at Stoneleigh. Then I went hunting for information, and the clincher for me was Dutch Harry's build site, it convinced me that I could do it.

There was no GTM Cars web site in 2002, but here's Harry's: http://www.elcova.be/passions

[rdodger]

singlecoil said:

I'm with Steve on this one, especially as I don't think potential kit car customers are in quite the same category as people looking for average consumer items.

That was my point. We aren't the same as some one looking to buy a kettle or a new BMW.

As a kit car owner and someone considering a new build I want more informaton. Lots of information. Lots of pictures and lots of technical spec.

[singlecoil]

rdodger said:

singlecoil said:

I'm with Steve on this one, especially as I don't think potential kit car customers are in quite the same category as people looking for average consumer items.

That was my point. We aren't the same as some one looking to buy a kettle or a new BMW.

As a kit car owner and someone considering a new build I want more informaton. Lots of information. Lots of pictures and lots of technical spec.

But would you reject a kit that you otherwise fancied because the level of information you wanted wasn't on the website?

[rdodger]

singlecoil said:

rdodger said:

singlecoil said:

I'm with Steve on this one, especially as I don't think potential kit car customers are in quite the same category as people looking for average consumer items.

That was my point. We aren't the same as some one looking to buy a kettle or a new BMW.

As a kit car owner and someone considering a new build I want more informaton. Lots of information. Lots of pictures and lots of technical spec.

But would you reject a kit that you otherwise fancied because the level of information you wanted wasn't on the website?

Quite possibly.

Kit cars aren't displayed in showrooms in every city. A lot you only see at Stoneleigh and a lot you don't see at any show a all.

Brochures generally aren't available. So manufacturer websites are the only reference, along with owners clubs.

I wouldn't be prepared to travel half way across the country to see one that I didn't have a lot of information on already.

I really don't want to get into some big arguement about this. I just think that it's an industry that is hard to make a profit in and the market very limited.

With this in mind, I would have thought that the manufacturers would really make an effort with their websites to attract existing kit car owners and prospective new owners.

So that's it really. I was just interested to hear if other people felt the same, or did they think there was enough information there to make them take the next step.

The End.

[singlecoil]

rdodger said:

singlecoil said:

rdodger said:

singlecoil said:

I'm with Steve on this one, especially as I don't think potential kit car customers are in quite the same category as people looking for average consumer items.

That was my point. We aren't the same as some one looking to buy a kettle or a new BMW.

As a kit car owner and someone considering a new build I want more informaton. Lots of information. Lots of pictures and lots of technical spec.

But would you reject a kit that you otherwise fancied because the level of information you wanted wasn't on the website?

Quite possibly.

Kit cars aren't displayed in showrooms in every city. A lot you only see at Stoneleigh and a lot you don't see at any show a all.

Brochures generally aren't available. So manufacturer websites are the only reference, along with owners clubs.

I wouldn't be prepared to travel half way across the country to see one that I didn't have a lot of information on already.

I really don't want to get into some big arguement about this. I just think that it's an industry that is hard to make a profit in and the market very limited.

With this in mind, I would have thought that the manufacturers would really make an effort with their websites to attract existing kit car owners and prospective new owners.

So that's it really. I was just interested to hear if other people felt the same, or did they think there was enough information there to make them take the next step.

The End.

I think, if anything, it reflects the healthy situation that many of the smaller kit manufacturers find themselves in. Yes they do a show or two or three, and yes they do some promotions, but basically they are selling all they can make. It's only when they are looking to get every possible sale that they start to worry about their websites.

I'm not in the kit manufacturing business (yet, anyway ), but I am in a related industry and I have a website that I haven't substantially updated for a year or more (I've made sure that pricing information is up to date, though). But then, I don't need to, I'm selling every hour I care to make available. Now, when I have an employee and have to try harder to make sure we have all the work we both need, then I will make the effort, til then- got better things to do with my spare time.

I also am not looking to make an argument of this, simply trying to explain why I think that some peope in this business aren't making the most of their marketing opportunities, they simply don't need to (at the moment, anyway)

[Paul Drawmer]

singlecoil said:

I think, if anything, it reflects the healthy situation that many of the smaller kit manufacturers find themselves in. Yes they do a show or two or three, and yes they do some promotions, but basically they are selling all they can make...

Well, that surprises me.

[singlecoil]

Paul Drawmer said:

singlecoil said:

I think, if anything, it reflects the healthy situation that many of the smaller kit manufacturers find themselves in. Yes they do a show or two or three, and yes they do some promotions, but basically they are selling all they can make...

Well, that surprises me.

It's interesting to look at, for instance, the Westfield site and see what a kit firm that has a good few employees has to do in order to ensure that they don't lose any potential sales. It's a question of investment, of course, be it time or money or both. The Westfield build manual is some 200 pages and includes many drawings (much easier to see and make sense of than photographs but much more time or cash consuming to have done). I expect that manual gains them some sales, all they have to do is show it to a potential customer, then suggest that when those customers look at other kits, they should ask to see a manual.

Other firms are happy to stay at their current size with a small number (if any) of employees and don't need to make those investments to get adequate (for them) sales. There's also the fact that many kit builders are individualists and are happy to go to extra effort to seek out less well marketed makes simply because that sort of thing appeals to them.

[Paul Drawmer]

It is the 'selling all they can make' that surprises me. I really didn't know that.

[singlecoil]

Paul Drawmer said:

It is the 'selling all they can make' that surprises me. I really didn't know that.

Why do I get the feeling you are not convinced? Ring a few and ask what the earliest delivery is.

I daresay that doesn't apply to all of them, just some. In any case, it's not where the money is, making and selling kits will buy their bread, sure, but the jam comes from the factory builds, once they get good (and more importantly, quick) at it then that becomes the main profit centre.

[singlecoil]

I've just realised I've left out one of the most important reasons why some kit companies may choose to remain relatively small, and won't be too fussed about scoring every possible sale, it's called the flat rate VAT scheme. If a manufacturing firm's sales are less than approx £6,000 a week then they qualify to go on this scheme, whereby they pay a flat rate percentage 8.5% in this case to HMRC and that takes care of their VAT liabilities. This is a much better deal than doing the conventional reclaiming input VAT and paying in the output VAT. Their input VAT isn't very much, steel and to a lesser extent GRP materials aren't very expensive as raw materials, so most of what they are selling is labour (no VAT to reclaim). The paperwork is a fk of a lot easier too.

[seansverige]

In this day and age I cannot conceive that you would run a business without a decent web presence as an integral - and important - part of the venture. It's an easy and cheap way to reach a lot of people, and saying it's difficult and expensive just proves an assumption has been made without conducting any proper research. At it's most basic all it takes is a mobile phone (for pics and video), an internet connection and an afternoon of your time to get it up and running, and as much - or as little - time thereafter to maintain it.

I do take the point that a website might not be essential to your business, but even then a basic shop window is useful; it's what we did for my brother's civil engineering firm - few nice pics, basic history, location & details about services offered and contact details; frankly there isn't much else we could usefully do with a website. Frankly, even if it doesn't directly generate any business, it's a basic credibility issue. However there are a lot of shambolic, poorly maintained sites out there, and a domain name is usually mentioned in the press item or brochure: if you're not going to do it properly, don't encourage visits.

Setup accounts with Yola, Flickr, Blogspot, Youtube and Issuu - all free to do:
Yola allows up to five page website for free (but I think you have to pay for a domain, else it's a yola subdomain), though you have to use of of their existing templates, however some basic, general information is all that's needed, with the following embedded / linked to:
Flickr allows up to 200 images on a free account, and now video - and you can decide whether these are available for download or not. Set up an account on 'Flickr on Black' for a slightly different look
Blogspot - you can use this for a number of things, news, build diaries either in a single blog with tags to filter or setup distinct blogs for each
Youtube is obviously for video, and Issuu is a recent discovery thanks to Stu B's thread where you can upload brochures / documents as pdf files. Don't know how to compile a pdf? If you had some promo stuff printed, chances are printshop digitised it at some point: ask them for a soft copy.
Flickr & Issuu are particularly useful as they allow you to offer downloadable content without running the bandwidth / hosting gauntlet.

For more casual enquiries, some nice pics and a decent spec and pricing are enough (but even this is lacking in many cases) - and this is probably all one could expect from a new kit. More serious enquiries, probably relating to an established kit need more specific info, so if you're an existing manufacturer, actively link and promote any build diaries - few actually do. If things reach a critical mass, a forum might be worth considering. And given that the industry is dominated by Sevens, Exos, and Cobras - a good website is surely especially crucial in making your case if you offer one of these vehicle types?

Even if you're just starting out, I would say threads like GTRClive's, Italo's and others prove there is a hunger for content out there: there are more content consumers than providers, and satisfying that demand is a good way to build a following.

Some basic rules, doubtless all obvious but I could cite examples of each I have recently experienced (not all kitcars to be fair, but smaller businesses who think a website is a luxury):

• DO update the blog regularly; this will ensure repeat visits, and therefore interest. Signs of life also reassure potential customers. And is blog IS enough: content is king - most of us would choose clear, current information over pointless flash intros that 'express the brand values'
• DO check & respond to emails - most businesses wouldn't ignore if you visited the showroom, but think not answering a mail is fine when frankly, as a customer, I don't see much difference. If the best way to reach you is by phone, no big deal - simply make that clear on the website
• DON'T ever link to an 'under contruction' page. Ever. Either upload that content or don't have that header / page. A favourite on kitcar sites is the 'for sale' page: if you occasionally sell something, put it in the blog
• DON'T be too specific or make promises you don't keep. Until recently, one manufacturer's latest online newsletter was from.... 2007. If you really have to have a bookmark, keep it vague: say coming Autumn '09, instead of end of Sep - it looks slightly better when someone checks back in October... Personally, I'd also keep the last updated and visitor count info to myself as well
• DON'T bother mentioning a website to TKC, CKC, KC if it doesn't ACTUALLY EXIST YET. It's annoying and makes you look amateurish. And finally,

Whether you think it's fair or not - in the absence of anything else, people WILL make value judgements about the quality of not just your product, but your business based on your website: therefore take it seriously.

Unfortunately, I think I'm preaching to the converted here - else why are you lot hanging around on a forum?...

[MX7]

Interesting thread, and all I'd like to add is that I agree with the OP. Some manufacturers really don't appear to make much of an effort.