Noble P4 jigs and moulds on ebay!
Discussion
singlecoil said:
A fantastic racing car of the 60's and still love its shape.....
These keep coming up for sale (and there has been at least 1 winning bid).
Strangely they are for sale by the same seller again. When I enquired to the reserve the reasponse was "Hi, this is the original lee noble kit, with all original drawings, looking for £10,000."
I don't think it is. The original Lee Noble kit was sold to AJ Performance / Butler (England) - Tony Butler at much the same time as the Ultima was also sold by Lee to Ted Marlow. (The Noble P4 and a MK3 Ultima share an almost identical chassis - both were sold by Kitdeal - Noble's first company.)
Butler made 1 or 2 cars and then sold everything to Neil Foreman http://www.nfauto.co.uk/mk4.htm who built up top 46 cars, but it appears chassis numbers may not have been in sequence, so there could be gaps!
Neil Foreman was the last person to actually sell a kit, and that was in about 2004/5.
Forman sold it to Dunlop Systems (a management buy out of the part of Dunlop who make airs suspension for trucks) http://www.foremanmk4.com/
So whether Mr Noble sold everything to Mr Butler remains a mystery, as does where the parts which make up this ebay listing. What appears to be missing is the windscreen tooling, so give up if you are thinking of bidding!
Strangely they are for sale by the same seller again. When I enquired to the reserve the reasponse was "Hi, this is the original lee noble kit, with all original drawings, looking for £10,000."
I don't think it is. The original Lee Noble kit was sold to AJ Performance / Butler (England) - Tony Butler at much the same time as the Ultima was also sold by Lee to Ted Marlow. (The Noble P4 and a MK3 Ultima share an almost identical chassis - both were sold by Kitdeal - Noble's first company.)
Butler made 1 or 2 cars and then sold everything to Neil Foreman http://www.nfauto.co.uk/mk4.htm who built up top 46 cars, but it appears chassis numbers may not have been in sequence, so there could be gaps!
Neil Foreman was the last person to actually sell a kit, and that was in about 2004/5.
Forman sold it to Dunlop Systems (a management buy out of the part of Dunlop who make airs suspension for trucks) http://www.foremanmk4.com/
So whether Mr Noble sold everything to Mr Butler remains a mystery, as does where the parts which make up this ebay listing. What appears to be missing is the windscreen tooling, so give up if you are thinking of bidding!
I saw probobly that last kit in Neils workshop in about 2004. A red car with Ferrari V12 on 6 vertical twin-choke carbs... Proper porn, but Neil admitted it did not run right but the buyer knew that well in advance of it being built, that is the setup he wanted and it would be his responsibility to get it running properly. I had all been paid for up front and for 3 months after completion Neil still had it, the owner was "too busy" to collect it!!! Oh to be so flippant! But back to your question on what the problem is..... I think it was the £100,000 build cost of that particular car. Not many people can outlay that on a kit car. A think Fat Arnie is doing one? His will no doubt be faster though.
Furyblade_Lee said:
£100,000 build cost of that particular car
It's the problem with replicas. I do know of a set of moulds for a supercar that isn't a replica, though, and no windscreen issues either. The chap only wants £5K for them. There's no chassis jig thoguh, but he does know people who can make the necessary chassis and suspension parts. I'd have them myself but I couldn't afford the cost of putting together the demonstrator.It still looks like a lot of kit for 10K, to develop something like that would cost a huge amount more.
The windscreen would not be a problem, as several companies seem to have P4 replicas and only a few companies hold the tooling so its out there somewhere. Not as if its a one off.
I guess there is no market for the car, I suppose an original engine and drivertrain is the problem, shame as the P4 is a great looking car. Stick a V8 LS3 in it should be able to build a decent one for under 50k then.
The windscreen would not be a problem, as several companies seem to have P4 replicas and only a few companies hold the tooling so its out there somewhere. Not as if its a one off.
I guess there is no market for the car, I suppose an original engine and drivertrain is the problem, shame as the P4 is a great looking car. Stick a V8 LS3 in it should be able to build a decent one for under 50k then.
I built one of the orgional cars many years back, but the experiance of driving it was never as good as you would think. Firstly you cant install opening windows due to the shape of the doors, so with all that glass you need air con or you cook. I had lift out windows in mine, but they used to open along the top edge up at high speed, and I never sorted that one. It was a pain to park just because of the general lack of visibilty, plus the fact that everyone was watching your every move in something so extrovert, waiting for you to ding it. Worse thing of all it was an expensive replica, and thats all. I ended up smashing it up over taking a lorry who did not realise I was there at all. He did me a favour!
Singlecoil, The rights issue is a big unknown. I think it is feasible the project has been sold more than once to a buyer who was expecting sole rights......
I am building one of these cars, and all I can say is that but for a scratch build, there is not much which could be harder. Nothing fits properly, loads of fabrication. That may just be mine though as its severly modded. You ahev to really want one of these to make the investment, so I expect sales will be hard.
Furyblade_Lee - I think you may find Fat Arnie's car is very very similar to mine, and with F355 power it will be faster than something with a 400 V12, mainly because its got an addtional 80bhp, and the F355 powetrain is a good bit lighter than a 400 v12 /G50 combo.
The car referred to had £100k spent on ti when it was bult by NF, and another huge amount of money, including a respray to metallic grey (for some very odd reason) by P4 expert (and he who maintains a real P4) Rob Wilson. It recently sold at Bonhams for £50k as the guy just had to get rid of it.
Joe T - Fran's car uses a forman body (though he won''t admit it). Glickenhaus will sell you a proper screen for (wait for this) $38k but thats one with the dual compound curve. Dunlop have the screen tooling for the Foreman cars too. Given they are both in business to make money, I doubt they would lend or supply parts to someone in competition.
As for fitting a Chevy motor, I know you are a fan, but anyone with taste knows it has to be a flat plane crank or nothing in a P4.
jason61c - yes its a kit car, but its a replica of arguably the most beautiful endurance racing car ever. If you ever see a real one (and bear in mind thaere are 20x as many real GT40s) you will understand. Also, to stick Ferrari badges on it, it should really have Ferrari DNA. Otherwise its like a nasty MR2 based kit.
Blitzracing - "Firstly you cant install opening windows due to the shape of the doors, so with all that glass you need air con or you cook. " A Spyder is the compromise solution.
I am building one of these cars, and all I can say is that but for a scratch build, there is not much which could be harder. Nothing fits properly, loads of fabrication. That may just be mine though as its severly modded. You ahev to really want one of these to make the investment, so I expect sales will be hard.
Furyblade_Lee - I think you may find Fat Arnie's car is very very similar to mine, and with F355 power it will be faster than something with a 400 V12, mainly because its got an addtional 80bhp, and the F355 powetrain is a good bit lighter than a 400 v12 /G50 combo.
The car referred to had £100k spent on ti when it was bult by NF, and another huge amount of money, including a respray to metallic grey (for some very odd reason) by P4 expert (and he who maintains a real P4) Rob Wilson. It recently sold at Bonhams for £50k as the guy just had to get rid of it.
Joe T - Fran's car uses a forman body (though he won''t admit it). Glickenhaus will sell you a proper screen for (wait for this) $38k but thats one with the dual compound curve. Dunlop have the screen tooling for the Foreman cars too. Given they are both in business to make money, I doubt they would lend or supply parts to someone in competition.
As for fitting a Chevy motor, I know you are a fan, but anyone with taste knows it has to be a flat plane crank or nothing in a P4.
jason61c - yes its a kit car, but its a replica of arguably the most beautiful endurance racing car ever. If you ever see a real one (and bear in mind thaere are 20x as many real GT40s) you will understand. Also, to stick Ferrari badges on it, it should really have Ferrari DNA. Otherwise its like a nasty MR2 based kit.
Blitzracing - "Firstly you cant install opening windows due to the shape of the doors, so with all that glass you need air con or you cook. " A Spyder is the compromise solution.
EFA said:
Blitzracing - "Firstly you cant install opening windows due to the shape of the doors, so with all that glass you need air con or you cook. " A Spyder is the compromise solution.
Such things where not available from Mr Noble at time as mine was a pretty early car with the lift out roof panel, that was then dropped and later cars where then altered to have the roof fixed in with sealed windows, hence the need for air con'. As a matter of interest the left hand sill had a dent in it copied from the origional car the mould was taken from. This was owned by a guy called David Piper (from memory) who had allowed moulds to be taken, but had not seemed to happy when I approched him about seeing the origional as Id built a kit. Cant say I blame him, a 230 bhp Renault V6 2.7 engine really is not Ferrari DNA! Mind you still 100% better than MR2 under pinnings.Mr Blitz, I'm not sure there were ever any Spyders. I think those that do exist, like yours are Nobles with the removable roof. I've cut the roof out of mine, and am trying to repanel all the bulkhead in ally. Nightmare.
Anyway the moulds etc appear (as they have before) to have sold again, this time for £3600.
How long until they come up again?
Anyway the moulds etc appear (as they have before) to have sold again, this time for £3600.
How long until they come up again?
EFA said:
Singlecoil, The rights issue is a big unknown. I think it is feasible the project has been sold more than once to a buyer who was expecting sole rights......
I am building one of these cars, and all I can say is that but for a scratch build, there is not much which could be harder. Nothing fits properly, loads of fabrication. That may just be mine though as its severly modded. You ahev to really want one of these to make the investment, so I expect sales will be hard.
Furyblade_Lee - I think you may find Fat Arnie's car is very very similar to mine, and with F355 power it will be faster than something with a 400 V12, mainly because its got an addtional 80bhp, and the F355 powetrain is a good bit lighter than a 400 v12 /G50 combo.
The car referred to had £100k spent on ti when it was bult by NF, and another huge amount of money, including a respray to metallic grey (for some very odd reason) by P4 expert (and he who maintains a real P4) Rob Wilson. It recently sold at Bonhams for £50k as the guy just had to get rid of it.
Joe T - Fran's car uses a forman body (though he won''t admit it). Glickenhaus will sell you a proper screen for (wait for this) $38k but thats one with the dual compound curve. Dunlop have the screen tooling for the Foreman cars too. Given they are both in business to make money, I doubt they would lend or supply parts to someone in competition.
As for fitting a Chevy motor, I know you are a fan, but anyone with taste knows it has to be a flat plane crank or nothing in a P4.
jason61c - yes its a kit car, but its a replica of arguably the most beautiful endurance racing car ever. If you ever see a real one (and bear in mind thaere are 20x as many real GT40s) you will understand. Also, to stick Ferrari badges on it, it should really have Ferrari DNA. Otherwise its like a nasty MR2 based kit.
Blitzracing - "Firstly you cant install opening windows due to the shape of the doors, so with all that glass you need air con or you cook. " A Spyder is the compromise solution.
Sorry but you're wrong.I am building one of these cars, and all I can say is that but for a scratch build, there is not much which could be harder. Nothing fits properly, loads of fabrication. That may just be mine though as its severly modded. You ahev to really want one of these to make the investment, so I expect sales will be hard.
Furyblade_Lee - I think you may find Fat Arnie's car is very very similar to mine, and with F355 power it will be faster than something with a 400 V12, mainly because its got an addtional 80bhp, and the F355 powetrain is a good bit lighter than a 400 v12 /G50 combo.
The car referred to had £100k spent on ti when it was bult by NF, and another huge amount of money, including a respray to metallic grey (for some very odd reason) by P4 expert (and he who maintains a real P4) Rob Wilson. It recently sold at Bonhams for £50k as the guy just had to get rid of it.
Joe T - Fran's car uses a forman body (though he won''t admit it). Glickenhaus will sell you a proper screen for (wait for this) $38k but thats one with the dual compound curve. Dunlop have the screen tooling for the Foreman cars too. Given they are both in business to make money, I doubt they would lend or supply parts to someone in competition.
As for fitting a Chevy motor, I know you are a fan, but anyone with taste knows it has to be a flat plane crank or nothing in a P4.
jason61c - yes its a kit car, but its a replica of arguably the most beautiful endurance racing car ever. If you ever see a real one (and bear in mind thaere are 20x as many real GT40s) you will understand. Also, to stick Ferrari badges on it, it should really have Ferrari DNA. Otherwise its like a nasty MR2 based kit.
Blitzracing - "Firstly you cant install opening windows due to the shape of the doors, so with all that glass you need air con or you cook. " A Spyder is the compromise solution.
There is no arguably about it. It is THE most beautiful endurance racer ever. One of the few cars that makes you want to run your hand along it tracing the curves. And I'm not even a fan of Ferraris in general.
MX7 - thats no typo!
Rhinochopig a dilemma then as to which is best....
This the British P3/4 (also known as a P412 - this car was campaigned by Col. Ronnie Hoare founder of Maranello Conc.in Egham):
or this - the P3/4 0846 which caught fire and was lost for many years before turning up in David Pipers hands. Some have claimed its not original. I have no idea. Its owner wrote a huge dossier to clarify its history.
or this - 0844 - arguably the most original and most valuable P4 (of the 3 P4's built) as it's less molested and much more original.:
or finally this, David Piper's continuation modeal 0900 (this is the car Noble took his moulds from and hence most of the replica bodies are 'based' upon, though most have the basket handle raised to make them more practical fro taller drivers.
Rhinochopig a dilemma then as to which is best....
This the British P3/4 (also known as a P412 - this car was campaigned by Col. Ronnie Hoare founder of Maranello Conc.in Egham):
or this - the P3/4 0846 which caught fire and was lost for many years before turning up in David Pipers hands. Some have claimed its not original. I have no idea. Its owner wrote a huge dossier to clarify its history.
or this - 0844 - arguably the most original and most valuable P4 (of the 3 P4's built) as it's less molested and much more original.:
or finally this, David Piper's continuation modeal 0900 (this is the car Noble took his moulds from and hence most of the replica bodies are 'based' upon, though most have the basket handle raised to make them more practical fro taller drivers.
EFA said:
MX7 - thats no typo!
Rhinochopig a dilemma then as to which is best....
This the British P3/4 (also known as a P412 - this car was campaigned by Col. Ronnie Hoare founder of Maranello Conc.in Egham):
or this - the P3/4 0846 which caught fire and was lost for many years before turning up in David Pipers hands. Some have claimed its not original. I have no idea. Its owner wrote a huge dossier to clarify its history.
or this - 0844 - arguably the most original and most valuable P4 (of the 3 P4's built) as it's less molested and much more original.:
or finally this, David Piper's continuation modeal 0900 (this is the car Noble took his moulds from and hence most of the replica bodies are 'based' upon, though most have the basket handle raised to make them more practical fro taller drivers.
0844 for me - they don't look right without the gold wheels. I also prefer the raised wing mirrors - although less aerodynamic I guess.Rhinochopig a dilemma then as to which is best....
This the British P3/4 (also known as a P412 - this car was campaigned by Col. Ronnie Hoare founder of Maranello Conc.in Egham):
or this - the P3/4 0846 which caught fire and was lost for many years before turning up in David Pipers hands. Some have claimed its not original. I have no idea. Its owner wrote a huge dossier to clarify its history.
or this - 0844 - arguably the most original and most valuable P4 (of the 3 P4's built) as it's less molested and much more original.:
or finally this, David Piper's continuation modeal 0900 (this is the car Noble took his moulds from and hence most of the replica bodies are 'based' upon, though most have the basket handle raised to make them more practical fro taller drivers.
That said, the key reason has to be 1:50m
0844 is not the most original 412P.
over the years it has been modified.
0854 which is in it's final Restoration will be very original Body, Engine, chassis.
0856 is the only original P4 in existence.
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1112...
Should you be interested in 0846
http://www.glickenhaus.com/jim/project.pdf
over the years it has been modified.
0854 which is in it's final Restoration will be very original Body, Engine, chassis.
0856 is the only original P4 in existence.
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1112...
Should you be interested in 0846
http://www.glickenhaus.com/jim/project.pdf
Good afternoon Jim.
You are of course quite correct, for 0844 read 0856. 0844 isn't even a P4!
I'm surprised this thread wasn't commented by P.S. but he seems to have gone very very very quiet of late. Any law suits flying or threats of equine bed company you are aware of?
You are of course quite correct, for 0844 read 0856. 0844 isn't even a P4!
I'm surprised this thread wasn't commented by P.S. but he seems to have gone very very very quiet of late. Any law suits flying or threats of equine bed company you are aware of?
Edited by EFA on Tuesday 27th July 17:27
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff