some advice please
Discussion
Hi all
I need some informed advice.
I've been offered a very nice replica of a well known classic car - it's perfect in every detail except for one thing - it's currently registered on what would appear to be a 'hooky' V5.
The current owner of the vehicle has been very honest about this - the car was registered on this log book just to get it on the road and he advises that this log book is scrapped and the car is then SVA'd (or the current equivalent) all over again if I buy it. Under duress, he says he will pass on the car as is and I can take my chances as this is what he has done for the past few years since the car has been built without any consequence.
Trouble is, I quite like the plate that's on the car as it is period correct.
In an ideal world, I'd buy the car 'as is' with the plate still on it and the V5 still reflecting the other car. There is a view that I'm worrying about nothing, but not having experienced the world of kits and SVA's, I'm a little cautious.
Key questions are:
Am I being naive to think I could get away with keeping the car on it's current V5 when the listed manufacturer is different to the car itself?
How would I insure it if the V5 is different? Is the insurance database linked to the DVLA?
What happens if the police do a PNC check?
How do I tax it if the car type listed on the insurance certificate differs from what's on the V5?
Sorry for all the questions, but it's a bit of a showstopper for me.
Informed advice welcome!
Marsh
I need some informed advice.
I've been offered a very nice replica of a well known classic car - it's perfect in every detail except for one thing - it's currently registered on what would appear to be a 'hooky' V5.
The current owner of the vehicle has been very honest about this - the car was registered on this log book just to get it on the road and he advises that this log book is scrapped and the car is then SVA'd (or the current equivalent) all over again if I buy it. Under duress, he says he will pass on the car as is and I can take my chances as this is what he has done for the past few years since the car has been built without any consequence.
Trouble is, I quite like the plate that's on the car as it is period correct.
In an ideal world, I'd buy the car 'as is' with the plate still on it and the V5 still reflecting the other car. There is a view that I'm worrying about nothing, but not having experienced the world of kits and SVA's, I'm a little cautious.
Key questions are:
Am I being naive to think I could get away with keeping the car on it's current V5 when the listed manufacturer is different to the car itself?
How would I insure it if the V5 is different? Is the insurance database linked to the DVLA?
What happens if the police do a PNC check?
How do I tax it if the car type listed on the insurance certificate differs from what's on the V5?
Sorry for all the questions, but it's a bit of a showstopper for me.
Informed advice welcome!
Marsh
I am no expert. But i think a lot depends on what type of car it is and the construction of it. Am i correct in thinking that the car has got the donor plate on it? And the V5 also has the donor info on it? This is illegal. You probably could get away wih it, however if there is a knowledgable policeman around, or just one with eagle eyes, and it pops up on an ANPR, then you are stuffed. You will also find it tricky getting it MOT'd, i dont know how the current owner is getting away with it.
Depending on the construction of the car etc etc, it will probably need an IVA. Unless it is a 3 wheeler under a certain weight in which case an MSVA. If the chassis, drivetrain, suspension and so on is all from the donor, and you can prove it along with photos, chassis number, engine number, then you can send it in for an inspection, and inform the DVLA and they can issue you with just a body change, however, i think you really have to fight your corner, depending on the inspector.
If it does need an IVA then if enough major componants are from the same donor then you will get an age related plate, as in, one from the same era as the donor. If this cannot be proved then you will get a Q plate, not nescessarily a bad thing, but once a Q plate, always a Q plate.
From what i have heard, it is a bit of a ball ache taking a car that is complete and on the road (illegally) and making it suitable for an IVA, as there are many criteria that have to be met regarding glass, switches, dial rim protrusion, edging, external protrusions from the body and so forth.
I hope this helps somewhat and await a more knowledgable person on the matter to come along. Not only to put me right on mistakes i have made but also to help out in your quest to a more detailed response.
Depending on the construction of the car etc etc, it will probably need an IVA. Unless it is a 3 wheeler under a certain weight in which case an MSVA. If the chassis, drivetrain, suspension and so on is all from the donor, and you can prove it along with photos, chassis number, engine number, then you can send it in for an inspection, and inform the DVLA and they can issue you with just a body change, however, i think you really have to fight your corner, depending on the inspector.
If it does need an IVA then if enough major componants are from the same donor then you will get an age related plate, as in, one from the same era as the donor. If this cannot be proved then you will get a Q plate, not nescessarily a bad thing, but once a Q plate, always a Q plate.
From what i have heard, it is a bit of a ball ache taking a car that is complete and on the road (illegally) and making it suitable for an IVA, as there are many criteria that have to be met regarding glass, switches, dial rim protrusion, edging, external protrusions from the body and so forth.
I hope this helps somewhat and await a more knowledgable person on the matter to come along. Not only to put me right on mistakes i have made but also to help out in your quest to a more detailed response.
As Slomax implies, the safest thing to do would be to submit it for an IVA test, whereupon, assuming the donor info is correct, it will quualify for an age related plate.
This is unless there is some official recognition of its kit status before 1999, such as an old MOT in the kit name, in which case it would be worth talking to the relevant authorities about getting the car's description changed to the existing rather than donor name.
There are many cases, I understand, of people still being able to get such mis-registered cars through the MOT, but it is a risk and eventually, I expect, this sort of thing will come to an end.
IVA wise, if you tell us which replica it is, we might be able to advise on particular areas of difficulty in obtaining a pass, some things are easy to deal with, some are not, but we can't advise until we have that info.
This is unless there is some official recognition of its kit status before 1999, such as an old MOT in the kit name, in which case it would be worth talking to the relevant authorities about getting the car's description changed to the existing rather than donor name.
There are many cases, I understand, of people still being able to get such mis-registered cars through the MOT, but it is a risk and eventually, I expect, this sort of thing will come to an end.
IVA wise, if you tell us which replica it is, we might be able to advise on particular areas of difficulty in obtaining a pass, some things are easy to deal with, some are not, but we can't advise until we have that info.
Thank you gentlemen - my fears would appear to be correct.
The V5 applied to the car does not in any way reflect the specification of the replica - i.e. the engine, drive train and chassis are all different, so it would be impossible to justify the plate on the basis of it belonging to the donor car as it doesn't!
Lam
The V5 applied to the car does not in any way reflect the specification of the replica - i.e. the engine, drive train and chassis are all different, so it would be impossible to justify the plate on the basis of it belonging to the donor car as it doesn't!
Lam
what on earth?!
Wait. So the registration is stated on the V5, but none of the componants in the kit are from the vehicle stated on the V5. Does this mean that the current owner has been getting a numberplate Mot'd and the numberplate taxed, but none of this has anything to do with the car, apart from the numberplate....
This all sounds super dodgy. If you were to present this for an IVA it would get a Q plate, but at least it would be legal. Personally i would avoid it, if you are up for a challenge and the price is right then go for it, but it sounds like it has the potential to be a bit of a nightmare on the old document front.
He will have major issues selling it as a road legal car. The price should be a lot less than a complete road going vehicle, as technically it will have to be treated as an unfinished kit with no paperwork.
What is it if you don't mind me asking?
Wait. So the registration is stated on the V5, but none of the componants in the kit are from the vehicle stated on the V5. Does this mean that the current owner has been getting a numberplate Mot'd and the numberplate taxed, but none of this has anything to do with the car, apart from the numberplate....
This all sounds super dodgy. If you were to present this for an IVA it would get a Q plate, but at least it would be legal. Personally i would avoid it, if you are up for a challenge and the price is right then go for it, but it sounds like it has the potential to be a bit of a nightmare on the old document front.
He will have major issues selling it as a road legal car. The price should be a lot less than a complete road going vehicle, as technically it will have to be treated as an unfinished kit with no paperwork.
What is it if you don't mind me asking?
Slomax - you are correct - the log book and resulting plate has nothing at all to do with the car.
The only details that correspond on the V5 is the colour and the engine size (as this was amended on the V5 - the original car was 1800cc and it is now 5700).
In fairness to the owner - he's been absolutely straight and above board about this and has strongly advised that the current V5 will be scrapped and I should seek a new SVA or modern equivalent.
As to the type of car, I'd rather not say, but it just might by a type of reptile that has been very well replicated in recent year by a type of bird of prey...
L
The only details that correspond on the V5 is the colour and the engine size (as this was amended on the V5 - the original car was 1800cc and it is now 5700).
In fairness to the owner - he's been absolutely straight and above board about this and has strongly advised that the current V5 will be scrapped and I should seek a new SVA or modern equivalent.
As to the type of car, I'd rather not say, but it just might by a type of reptile that has been very well replicated in recent year by a type of bird of prey...
L
Edited by Lam on Saturday 23 October 17:40
Well, it's certainly possible to IVA the type of car I think you are describing, it's just a question of complying with the manual, which you can download a copy of from a link near the top of this kit cars forum.
There are two big problems that I can see, first is that you would not be able to submit it as an amateur build because you would have no proff of that, and secondly it would end up as a Q plate because there is no provable link between the components in the donor document, and the kit as it stand now, plus, I daresay, no receipts for the parts fitted. VOSA might even say (they have done in the past) that it would need to be submitted by a professional builder as there is no evidence that it is amateur built.
Even getting the egine capacity and number on the V5 changed to show the kit's engine wouldn't work as I understand they get an MOT station to check the engine change.
Looks like one that needs to be walked away from unless the price is really inviting and you really fancy it.
There are two big problems that I can see, first is that you would not be able to submit it as an amateur build because you would have no proff of that, and secondly it would end up as a Q plate because there is no provable link between the components in the donor document, and the kit as it stand now, plus, I daresay, no receipts for the parts fitted. VOSA might even say (they have done in the past) that it would need to be submitted by a professional builder as there is no evidence that it is amateur built.
Even getting the egine capacity and number on the V5 changed to show the kit's engine wouldn't work as I understand they get an MOT station to check the engine change.
Looks like one that needs to be walked away from unless the price is really inviting and you really fancy it.
Lam said:
Hi all
I need some informed advice.
I've been offered a very nice replica of a well known classic car - it's perfect in every detail except for one thing - it's currently registered on what would appear to be a 'hooky' V5.
The current owner of the vehicle has been very honest about this - the car was registered on this log book just to get it on the road and he advises that this log book is scrapped and the car is then SVA'd (or the current equivalent) all over again if I buy it. Under duress, he says he will pass on the car as is and I can take my chances as this is what he has done for the past few years since the car has been built without any consequence.
Trouble is, I quite like the plate that's on the car as it is period correct.
In an ideal world, I'd buy the car 'as is' with the plate still on it and the V5 still reflecting the other car. There is a view that I'm worrying about nothing, but not having experienced the world of kits and SVA's, I'm a little cautious.
Key questions are:
Am I being naive to think I could get away with keeping the car on it's current V5 when the listed manufacturer is different to the car itself?
How would I insure it if the V5 is different? Is the insurance database linked to the DVLA?
What happens if the police do a PNC check?
How do I tax it if the car type listed on the insurance certificate differs from what's on the V5?
Sorry for all the questions, but it's a bit of a showstopper for me.
Informed advice welcome!
Marsh
Just out of curiousity how long has the car been built and does the seller have previous mots, if so you may be able to convince the DVLA to change the name on the V5C there have been a number of well documented cases I believe, there was even one talked about on here a while ago.I need some informed advice.
I've been offered a very nice replica of a well known classic car - it's perfect in every detail except for one thing - it's currently registered on what would appear to be a 'hooky' V5.
The current owner of the vehicle has been very honest about this - the car was registered on this log book just to get it on the road and he advises that this log book is scrapped and the car is then SVA'd (or the current equivalent) all over again if I buy it. Under duress, he says he will pass on the car as is and I can take my chances as this is what he has done for the past few years since the car has been built without any consequence.
Trouble is, I quite like the plate that's on the car as it is period correct.
In an ideal world, I'd buy the car 'as is' with the plate still on it and the V5 still reflecting the other car. There is a view that I'm worrying about nothing, but not having experienced the world of kits and SVA's, I'm a little cautious.
Key questions are:
Am I being naive to think I could get away with keeping the car on it's current V5 when the listed manufacturer is different to the car itself?
How would I insure it if the V5 is different? Is the insurance database linked to the DVLA?
What happens if the police do a PNC check?
How do I tax it if the car type listed on the insurance certificate differs from what's on the V5?
Sorry for all the questions, but it's a bit of a showstopper for me.
Informed advice welcome!
Marsh
I did read a comment in one of this months kicar mags, a guy was going to attempt to get the Q plate removed from his car and get an age related plate as he has now got sone paperwork to prove the donor, even though he was nit the original builder. What are his chances of pulling that off? Probobly less chance than me getting Pamela Anderson to pull me.....
Furyblade_Lee said:
I did read a comment in one of this months kicar mags, a guy was going to attempt to get the Q plate removed from his car and get an age related plate as he has now got sone paperwork to prove the donor, even though he was nit the original builder. What are his chances of pulling that off? Probobly less chance than me getting Pamela Anderson to pull me.....
Dunno Lee you're an attractive manYazza54 said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
I did read a comment in one of this months kicar mags, a guy was going to attempt to get the Q plate removed from his car and get an age related plate as he has now got sone paperwork to prove the donor, even though he was nit the original builder. What are his chances of pulling that off? Probobly less chance than me getting Pamela Anderson to pull me.....
Dunno Lee you're an attractive manDoes the V5 relate to the car it's a replica of? Or something totally different?
There are loads of classics and kits out there of questionable provenance. Plenty of reshelled, restored cars that retain their chassis numbers despite the fact that that is probably the only original part of the car left.
A neighbour of mine owns a 'famous' old race car, but happily admits the only part of it left that ever really raced is the foot of 1" tube with the chassis number stamped in.
There is no hard and fast rule as to where the line is drawn, it's just whether you feel brave enough to try to prove to a police inspector of the DVLA that the car is what the V5 says.
If the car has been on the road a number of years you may find you can go to the DVLA, prove that fact and get it properly registered any way.
There are loads of classics and kits out there of questionable provenance. Plenty of reshelled, restored cars that retain their chassis numbers despite the fact that that is probably the only original part of the car left.
A neighbour of mine owns a 'famous' old race car, but happily admits the only part of it left that ever really raced is the foot of 1" tube with the chassis number stamped in.
There is no hard and fast rule as to where the line is drawn, it's just whether you feel brave enough to try to prove to a police inspector of the DVLA that the car is what the V5 says.
If the car has been on the road a number of years you may find you can go to the DVLA, prove that fact and get it properly registered any way.
Even if there was proof that it had been on the road, in its current form, as said earlier, unless there is a provable link between the car as it is, and the original donor, then it is almost certainly going to end up with a Q plate. Not a problem for many kit cars, but might stick out like a sore thumb on a period replica.
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