GTM information on Westfield's website
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm just after a bit of information on GTM kit cars. A Mate of mine is getting interested in them and has asked me what i thought of them because he knows i'm into my cars and had a few kits (although nothing like this as both of mine have been Caterhams). Anyway, i was under the impression that GTM was owned by Westfield, but there is nothing about them on their website
. I've found a press release on the website saying that they own GTM and "Roadster BiL", but i can't find info for either of them. Does anyone know if they are still in production, what they're like and better still has anyone got any experience of the build process?
Cheers,
Mick.
I'm just after a bit of information on GTM kit cars. A Mate of mine is getting interested in them and has asked me what i thought of them because he knows i'm into my cars and had a few kits (although nothing like this as both of mine have been Caterhams). Anyway, i was under the impression that GTM was owned by Westfield, but there is nothing about them on their website
. I've found a press release on the website saying that they own GTM and "Roadster BiL", but i can't find info for either of them. Does anyone know if they are still in production, what they're like and better still has anyone got any experience of the build process?Cheers,
Mick.
Indeed Westfield took over the GTM name but seem to have just sat on the car and it's effectively out of production now. You don't say which GTM your friend is interested in but if he's interested in an enclosed car (ie with a roof) based on a single donor vehicle he might be interested in the Midas which is still in production.
The Libra and Spyder are owned by Westfield now, but both kits are out of production due to the monocoque being too expensive to produce and some of the Rover donor parts becoming unavailable new. Such a shame as a fantastic road car. There was talk of it being re-engineered (possibly for Vauxhall donor including the VXR Turbo engine like the Westfield now uses, but the expensive monocoque problem still remains so I doubt it will be re-released in it's current guise or similar. But spares are still available from Westfield, albeit a little slow to deliver generally. TeamGTM is the website you need if you are serious, everything you need to buy and run GTMs is on there. As a secondhand alternative to an Elise they are fantastic, although a little trickier to handle on the limit. Better storage for touring and much cheaper insurance, and a little lighter than an equivalent Elise. 6-10k covers them all really, a VVC powered car is very nice indeed. I toured Germany and France in mine, very good at touring the twisty roads.
Thanks everyone,
The car would be used for roaduse. I'll pass on the information to my friend - basically he wanted something a bit like an elise but cheaper and that he could build himself. In truth i don't know where he got the idea from as i am far more into cars and it wouldn't have been a car that appeared on my radar, although it seems there are a few fans on here!
It also sounds like Westfield are just buying up all of the smaller companies and then not producing their cars anymore? I don't really understand the point of that - it seems like such a shame?
Maybe i'll just suggests that he buys an elise and takes it completely to pieces and then re-builds it!
cheers,
The car would be used for roaduse. I'll pass on the information to my friend - basically he wanted something a bit like an elise but cheaper and that he could build himself. In truth i don't know where he got the idea from as i am far more into cars and it wouldn't have been a car that appeared on my radar, although it seems there are a few fans on here!
It also sounds like Westfield are just buying up all of the smaller companies and then not producing their cars anymore? I don't really understand the point of that - it seems like such a shame?
Maybe i'll just suggests that he buys an elise and takes it completely to pieces and then re-builds it!
cheers,
I had the same exact question a few months ago. And when I started asking around (I live across the pond on the right coast) I called Manik Technologies (Westfield's US Importer) and talked to one of their reps. I cannot remember the guys name for the life of me, but he told me "In June (2010) Westfield will have a meeting and cast a final decision on whether or not to continue the GTM Libra/Spyder or not." Fast forward to now and I've still not gotten any information either side of the issue; no one from Westfield (as far as I know) has come out and plainly said "We will no longer make the GTM Libra" so far I've gotten "We're not sure", "We will see in time" etc. etc. But as with any Kit type car... Money motivates even the most steadfast of businessmen. I had contemplated just asking how much money it would take for Westfield to make a one off last body for me to have here in the US. Since American Import laws are so lame, and I would need a car that hasn't registered yet. And all the half build kits out there aren't the body type I want. Your buddies best bet (I'm assuming you like in the UK) is get a hold of Westfield and schedule a visit on a long weekend or something provided he can, and get talking to them face-to-face and see what he can find out. I sure as hell would like to know whats the deal.
I'd be interested to see how much the moncoque costs to produce.
The only alternative is a steel space frame chassis, which is also relatively expensive to produce, especially from the point they're at, where they'd have to design a chassis, redesign the body to suit the chassis, manufacture jigs to produce the chassis etc..etc..
Surely producing the tub can't be THAT expensive??
The only alternative is a steel space frame chassis, which is also relatively expensive to produce, especially from the point they're at, where they'd have to design a chassis, redesign the body to suit the chassis, manufacture jigs to produce the chassis etc..etc..
Surely producing the tub can't be THAT expensive??
EddyP said:
I'd be interested to see how much the moncoque costs to produce.
The only alternative is a steel space frame chassis, which is also relatively expensive to produce, especially from the point they're at, where they'd have to design a chassis, redesign the body to suit the chassis, manufacture jigs to produce the chassis etc..etc..
Surely producing the tub can't be THAT expensive??
It was more expensive with regards to the actual time it took than materials etc. May well have just been an excuse to do nothing with the brand though, which begs the question...why buy it?!The only alternative is a steel space frame chassis, which is also relatively expensive to produce, especially from the point they're at, where they'd have to design a chassis, redesign the body to suit the chassis, manufacture jigs to produce the chassis etc..etc..
Surely producing the tub can't be THAT expensive??
By the way just to clarify, I believe the GTM brand is owned by Potenza Sports Cars, who also own Westfield. Hence there won't be any reference to GTM on Westfield's website but some of the people involved will be the same.
I'm not sure how up to date the information is, but one of the mags did a feature photoshoot at the time it was announced that the kit would no longer be produced. At that time the plans appeared to be to redevelop the car using the Westfield pattern (i.e. shared parts bin, all new parts). The first into production was supposed to be an electric version. Personally, I expect the reason is actually because of government subsidy for development of new electric cars. Such a car would be much simpler to re-engineer, and the subsidy could effectively pay for part of the redevelopment process whether any are sold or not. That's a cynical perspective of course. But whether any new GTM will really see the light of day again is anyone's guess.
I'm not sure how up to date the information is, but one of the mags did a feature photoshoot at the time it was announced that the kit would no longer be produced. At that time the plans appeared to be to redevelop the car using the Westfield pattern (i.e. shared parts bin, all new parts). The first into production was supposed to be an electric version. Personally, I expect the reason is actually because of government subsidy for development of new electric cars. Such a car would be much simpler to re-engineer, and the subsidy could effectively pay for part of the redevelopment process whether any are sold or not. That's a cynical perspective of course. But whether any new GTM will really see the light of day again is anyone's guess.
We are all guessing here, so I will add my guesses- first guess is that making the GRP monocoque would be expensive in both materials and labour. Once you'ge got your jigs and cutting system set up, welding up a steel chassis is actually pretty quick, and steel doesn't cost very much either. But laying up a complex monocoque with several layers of reinforcement is, I expect, likely to take a lot longer, and resin products are expensive.
The other guess is to do with the potential sales. The Libra is a very good all-rounder, and quite a sensible car too, and that is one of its drawbacks, it doesn't look exciting. It isn't why the average person buys a kit car.
The other guess is to do with the potential sales. The Libra is a very good all-rounder, and quite a sensible car too, and that is one of its drawbacks, it doesn't look exciting. It isn't why the average person buys a kit car.
Furyblade_Lee said:
You are quite right the Libra is a good all rounder, but it doesn't look exciting???? Have you gone completely mad???
I think it's an exciting looking car, but I do get what SC is saying. However surely there's a market for such an all rounder? The only thing is, it's a kit and people don't tend to make a kit car because they want a good all rounder, as you can buy a car for that. Either way I loved mine. It just depends what you want out of a car. If it's a useable sports car it's hardly beatable, if you want a fast, raw weekend/track car then there are many other options.
Yes, I didn't make myself clear. I don't have an opinion either way on the Libra styling, I don't particularly like it or dislike it, but what I should have said is that it doesn't look as if the experience of driving it would be exciting in the way in which a 7 would be.
For years I've been wanting to design make and market a kit of my own, and have gone up several blind alleys in the process. One of the things that I eventually realised is that 'sensible' cars are not what the market is about, and that excitement is what sells. The thing with 7s especially is, apart from the excitement thing mentioned, is the feeling that if one buys one then one is going to join a 'club'. One of the things that motivates bikers, I'm sure.
Having said that, the project I am working on now is not a 7, as that market is prety much saturated.
I'm not in the slightest surprised at Potenza dropping the GTM, what I cna't understand is why they bought it in the first place, it just doesn't fit their operation.
For years I've been wanting to design make and market a kit of my own, and have gone up several blind alleys in the process. One of the things that I eventually realised is that 'sensible' cars are not what the market is about, and that excitement is what sells. The thing with 7s especially is, apart from the excitement thing mentioned, is the feeling that if one buys one then one is going to join a 'club'. One of the things that motivates bikers, I'm sure.
Having said that, the project I am working on now is not a 7, as that market is prety much saturated.
I'm not in the slightest surprised at Potenza dropping the GTM, what I cna't understand is why they bought it in the first place, it just doesn't fit their operation.
Poteza bought GTM exactly for the reason that it would expand their business, they bought the car AND the name. Do you not think that they could have built their own Elise rival and sold it under the Westfield name??? They bought what they thought was a viable product as is which could be "Westfield'ised" with Euro-compliant GM engine exactly in the direction their 7 would go. And an "electric" version again as the 7 will be developed. I had a chat at the Autosport show with the man himself who sold GTM to Potenza, and believe me he was/is so full of s
t that he told me with a straight face that I am 100% convinced Potenza were shafted, incredibly naieve or plain stupid. You decide. I will not divulge on here some of the crap he told me about what had been going on with the venture, but you would wet yourself if you knew. Westfield inherited a mess with the Libra, not so much the car which IS a good car but all the parts supply and stock were a complete mess. The car was just too expensive to produce in the current climate and also to develop with that tub. Quite why that was not forseen is a mystery to me, and what they gave ended up with is responsibility for parts supply for someone elses car, and the name GTM which does not really carry anymore clout than Westfield does it?? Don't be fooled into thinking the plan was not to sell Libras at a profit to begin with. What they got was not what they though they were getting....
t that he told me with a straight face that I am 100% convinced Potenza were shafted, incredibly naieve or plain stupid. You decide. I will not divulge on here some of the crap he told me about what had been going on with the venture, but you would wet yourself if you knew. Westfield inherited a mess with the Libra, not so much the car which IS a good car but all the parts supply and stock were a complete mess. The car was just too expensive to produce in the current climate and also to develop with that tub. Quite why that was not forseen is a mystery to me, and what they gave ended up with is responsibility for parts supply for someone elses car, and the name GTM which does not really carry anymore clout than Westfield does it?? Don't be fooled into thinking the plan was not to sell Libras at a profit to begin with. What they got was not what they though they were getting.... Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff