Building car from scratch
Discussion
Hello,
I hope you guys can help,
Me and my husband have been thinking of building our own vehicle and we want to look at an open top LMP style car.
We have looked at Ultimas but they are bulky and not what we are after.
First problem is gearbox:
Why are the G50's in Ultimas mounted upside down?
Do porsche engines run anti clockwise?? [Stupid question I know but Im lost]
If so would another anticlockwise engine run the gearbox the correct way. [Or am I being stupid?]
Next problem is engine:
We dont want anything overly powerful so I think the LS V8 range is out of the window.
We also have size issues as I want something rather compact and low or thin.
Please note we will be looking at sticking the car through IVA so we can travel to events.
Are there any issues I havent thought about relating to sticking such a vehicle on the road?
Thank you Annie.
I hope you guys can help,
Me and my husband have been thinking of building our own vehicle and we want to look at an open top LMP style car.
We have looked at Ultimas but they are bulky and not what we are after.
First problem is gearbox:
Why are the G50's in Ultimas mounted upside down?
Do porsche engines run anti clockwise?? [Stupid question I know but Im lost]
If so would another anticlockwise engine run the gearbox the correct way. [Or am I being stupid?]
Next problem is engine:
We dont want anything overly powerful so I think the LS V8 range is out of the window.
We also have size issues as I want something rather compact and low or thin.
Please note we will be looking at sticking the car through IVA so we can travel to events.
Are there any issues I havent thought about relating to sticking such a vehicle on the road?
Thank you Annie.
Anniewilliam said:
First problem is gearbox:
Why are the G50's in Ultimas mounted upside down?
Do porsche engines run anti clockwise?? [Stupid question I know but Im lost]
Porsche engines are behind the rear axle (ie. rear engined). Ultimas are mid engined (engine in front of the rear axle). If you imagine rotating the Porshce engine through 180 degrees to put it in the same place as the Ultima's engine, you'd find you have a car with lots of reverse gears, but only one for going forward. Invert the gearbox, and you have your full complement of forward gears again. Why are the G50's in Ultimas mounted upside down?
Do porsche engines run anti clockwise?? [Stupid question I know but Im lost]
AnnieWilliam said:
Next problem is engine:
We dont want anything overly powerful so I think the LS V8 range is out of the window.
We also have size issues as I want something rather compact and low or thin.
Please note we will be looking at sticking the car through IVA so we can travel to events.
Are there any issues I havent thought about relating to sticking such a vehicle on the road?
Thank you Annie.
There are several lower-powered 'LMP' style kit cars. Have a look at the Westfield XTR2/XTR4, for example.We dont want anything overly powerful so I think the LS V8 range is out of the window.
We also have size issues as I want something rather compact and low or thin.
Please note we will be looking at sticking the car through IVA so we can travel to events.
Are there any issues I havent thought about relating to sticking such a vehicle on the road?
Thank you Annie.
Nothing stopping you putting a lower-powered engine in an Ultima, of course (the early cars used Renault V6's, and indeed the car's original designer, Lee Noble, was fairly scathing of the V8 installation, calling the engine a 'boat anchor').
Biggest problem with road use tends to be ground clearance: give yourself enough clearance under the front splitter to cope with humps, dropped kerbs and potholes, and the car looks as if it's on tip-toes.
IVA has lots of problems, but none that can't be overcome. Headlamp positions and windscreen/exposed edge requirements are among the more challenging for an LMP-style car, though.
Spire GTR, very much LMP stylee but much, much cheaper than the Ultima.
Engine wise, I recon that the Audi 1.8T engine and gearbox should be a good choice (same as Westfield XTR4),I4, longitudinal mounted with transaxle. If you wanted more power then the Audi 4.2l V8 mated to an Audi 2.5Tdi 6 speed gearbox is a good combo, (Google Hilly's Lotus Esprit Audi V8). The benefit of using the Audi boxes (as Porsche did with the 944) is they are much cheaper and easier to source than the G50. The 1.8T is a great engine, very good to tune (not necessarily cheap) and suits the car well (Scooby's Aeon GT3 can be seen on Youtube).
Westfield believed that the XTR4 was actually faster round a track than the XTR2, Youtube has the 5th Gear videos of the XTR vs a bike round a track.
Engine wise, I recon that the Audi 1.8T engine and gearbox should be a good choice (same as Westfield XTR4),I4, longitudinal mounted with transaxle. If you wanted more power then the Audi 4.2l V8 mated to an Audi 2.5Tdi 6 speed gearbox is a good combo, (Google Hilly's Lotus Esprit Audi V8). The benefit of using the Audi boxes (as Porsche did with the 944) is they are much cheaper and easier to source than the G50. The 1.8T is a great engine, very good to tune (not necessarily cheap) and suits the car well (Scooby's Aeon GT3 can be seen on Youtube).
Westfield believed that the XTR4 was actually faster round a track than the XTR2, Youtube has the 5th Gear videos of the XTR vs a bike round a track.
I admire anyones bravardo to make their own LMP car, but as I sense you have budget constraints I would not even consider it. Have a look at something like the Spire and see if you could put your own spin on it, and as stated if you are after a genuine roadgoing LMP it will look 4x4 in comparison to the real thing if you actually want to drive it on the road. It has been proven in the RGB championship too that if you jack up the Radical to "road" height it is not really any faster than the normal cars it raced against, ie the Stuart Taylor Phoenix that won the championship. I f you run it too low at the front and you ground out that long nose and splitter round a bend with a depression in it, you will have a nasty accident. Radical do this kind of car the best, have a good look at them and a road legal XTR4 to get a few ideas. Good luck!
Hi Annie,
Another car that fits what you are thinking about about is the Wolfe, it has LMP style bodywork on the Sylva Riot chassis.
The Wolfe bodywork was designed by Tony Gaunt to pass an SVA test if required and quite a few Riots have been built with different car engines. It is quite a small car.
We have a bike engine in ours and race quite successfully in the 750 MC RGB championship
Another car that fits what you are thinking about about is the Wolfe, it has LMP style bodywork on the Sylva Riot chassis.
The Wolfe bodywork was designed by Tony Gaunt to pass an SVA test if required and quite a few Riots have been built with different car engines. It is quite a small car.
We have a bike engine in ours and race quite successfully in the 750 MC RGB championship
Heatherj said:
Hi Annie,
Another car that fits what you are thinking about about is the Wolfe, it has LMP style bodywork on the Sylva Riot chassis.
The Wolfe bodywork was designed by Tony Gaunt to pass an SVA test if required and quite a few Riots have been built with different car engines. It is quite a small car.
We have a bike engine in ours and race quite successfully in the 750 MC RGB championship
Off topicAnother car that fits what you are thinking about about is the Wolfe, it has LMP style bodywork on the Sylva Riot chassis.
The Wolfe bodywork was designed by Tony Gaunt to pass an SVA test if required and quite a few Riots have been built with different car engines. It is quite a small car.
We have a bike engine in ours and race quite successfully in the 750 MC RGB championship
Oooh Racer girl
Hello!On topic...
Nice car, not seen one of those before. I thought the full bodied riot was a J15??
Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 28th October 21:26
Heatherj said:
Hi Annie,
Another car that fits what you are thinking about about is the Wolfe, it has LMP style bodywork on the Sylva Riot chassis.
The Wolfe bodywork was designed by Tony Gaunt to pass an SVA test if required and quite a few Riots have been built with different car engines. It is quite a small car.
We have a bike engine in ours and race quite successfully in the 750 MC RGB championship
4 posts in 96 months.Another car that fits what you are thinking about about is the Wolfe, it has LMP style bodywork on the Sylva Riot chassis.
The Wolfe bodywork was designed by Tony Gaunt to pass an SVA test if required and quite a few Riots have been built with different car engines. It is quite a small car.
We have a bike engine in ours and race quite successfully in the 750 MC RGB championship
Good work!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/2208851.htm... have a look at this project it might be just what your looking for, under motorsport, spaceframe, standard advert. ADR SPORTS 2 LMP PROJECT
It's not clear from the title and first post whether you are planning to build a kit, or to actually design and construct the car yourself. If the latter then I would have to suggest that you might not be starting from the best possible position.
If the former then the Spire, as mentioned earlier, has got to be the obvious choice.
If the former then the Spire, as mentioned earlier, has got to be the obvious choice.
Some websites to help, read them, these builds are the best on the web! :
La Bala http://www.grabercars.com/
Meerkat http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/
DP1 http://dpcars.net/
La Bala was a scratch built that turned inbto a kit.
From memory the Meerkat was never completed but he did get a long way down the line and has built cars before.
The DP1 is an awesome little machine, there is a comprehensive build and design diary on the site under, IIRC, dp1 initial design phase or something similar.
Regarding the G50, it is a big lump for big engines, it might not be what you are after. Perhaps an Audi engine and gearbox or a bike engine with a chain driven diff would be more in line with the car you are planing.
La Bala http://www.grabercars.com/
Meerkat http://www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/
DP1 http://dpcars.net/
La Bala was a scratch built that turned inbto a kit.
From memory the Meerkat was never completed but he did get a long way down the line and has built cars before.
The DP1 is an awesome little machine, there is a comprehensive build and design diary on the site under, IIRC, dp1 initial design phase or something similar.
Regarding the G50, it is a big lump for big engines, it might not be what you are after. Perhaps an Audi engine and gearbox or a bike engine with a chain driven diff would be more in line with the car you are planing.
Thank you for the info,
We want the engine to be situated North/South so most bike engines and FWD boxes are out.
Is there any min ride height laws as well as how close roll hoops are to the occupants?
Also does any one know if there are any min height for the headlights?
We have looked at subaru engines, 13b wankle engines and VQ35de's from the 350z.
After more thought we want to keep away from F/I to keep things simple and the VQ is a rather tall engine which throws it out.
The LS engines fit the bill perfectly except for the Ltr and power. [More thought needed]
Thank you
We want the engine to be situated North/South so most bike engines and FWD boxes are out.
Is there any min ride height laws as well as how close roll hoops are to the occupants?
Also does any one know if there are any min height for the headlights?
We have looked at subaru engines, 13b wankle engines and VQ35de's from the 350z.
After more thought we want to keep away from F/I to keep things simple and the VQ is a rather tall engine which throws it out.
The LS engines fit the bill perfectly except for the Ltr and power. [More thought needed]
Thank you
As mentioned above the Audi units are superb we have a 1.8 Turbo in the Deronda putting out 300bhp Though you can get more mild variants out of most of the VAG range. Ideal donors are the A4, A6 Audis and the VW Passat and Skoda Superb. The car weighs 667kg and needless to say we can pass some seriously big and powerful machines such as Lambos recently at Silverstone. If you want bigger you can put bigger in and for a road car the V6 Audi unit might be good as it's a bit more docile so to speak but we can go to the V8 an we reckon the V10 too but that's just getting stupid horses.
The engine is located midships longitudinally in front of the transaxle gearbox driving the rear wheels. Basically it's the correct layout for a proper race car with suspension to match too. Two seats and can be made road legal.
The Deronda is open wheeled but we've been thinking of putting some more bodywork on the car as per LMP. Yes the Deronda has been road registered check out the black car on my profile.
The engine is located midships longitudinally in front of the transaxle gearbox driving the rear wheels. Basically it's the correct layout for a proper race car with suspension to match too. Two seats and can be made road legal.
The Deronda is open wheeled but we've been thinking of putting some more bodywork on the car as per LMP. Yes the Deronda has been road registered check out the black car on my profile.
Edited by qdos on Friday 29th October 14:13
There's a link to the IVA manual (the book with which cars must comply if they are to pass the test and be registered for the road) at the top of the kit cars forum-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... manual/info
and there certainly is a minimum height for headlamps. There's plenty of other requirements too.
You do seem to be starting from a long way behind, no offence meant. It would help if you would say what your main motivation is in taking on this project. If you are simply looking to save money then I would have to say I think your chances are non-existent. If on the other hand you do have a reasonable budget available then, and it was actually the styling that interested you, then buying a ready made chassis and making your own bodywork would be feasible, although quite a long project.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... manual/info
and there certainly is a minimum height for headlamps. There's plenty of other requirements too.
You do seem to be starting from a long way behind, no offence meant. It would help if you would say what your main motivation is in taking on this project. If you are simply looking to save money then I would have to say I think your chances are non-existent. If on the other hand you do have a reasonable budget available then, and it was actually the styling that interested you, then buying a ready made chassis and making your own bodywork would be feasible, although quite a long project.
Edited by singlecoil on Friday 29th October 14:11
Anniewilliam said:
We will be building from scratch.
Is there any min ride height laws as well as how close roll hoops are to the occupants?
Also does any one know if there are any min height for the headlights?
Without wishing to sound patronising, if you have to ask those questions do you really think you are qualified to design and build a car from scratch? Sorry if that sounds harsh. Is there any min ride height laws as well as how close roll hoops are to the occupants?
Also does any one know if there are any min height for the headlights?
Suggest you refer to Constructions & Use Regulations and the Guide to getting your car through the IVA at the top of this Section
Anniewilliam said:
Thank you for the info,
We want the engine to be situated North/South so most bike engines and FWD boxes are out.
I would imagine a longitudinal mounted bike engine with a very short prop to a freelander diff or similar won't be much different in length to a g50 or similar on it's own.We want the engine to be situated North/South so most bike engines and FWD boxes are out.
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