Choose the running gear and design a chassis for this body

[singlecoil]

Following on from Flintstone's thread about re-bodying a TVR with the Sammio body shown below (and using the pics he provided ) I have been wondering about whether one could make a new chassis to take this body un-modified. It's designed for a Triumph Herald chassis, which means the space for engine, gearbox, front and rear suspensions are all quite limited. Also, the rear track of a Herald is narrow at 1219mm whereas even a Mk2 Escort is 100mm odd wider.

Here are the pics




I am thinking bike engine, 7 style front suspension, maybe with Cortina uprights and narrow wishbones at the front (there may be an ackermann issue. The rear is going to be tricky. The standard Herald set up uses swing axles and a transverse spring. Assuming wewant something a little better, the issue is going to be suitable donor components, and, trickier still, where to put the springs (note ho the bodywork dips down between the rear arches.


I look forward to hearing suggestions.
Here is a link to the ebay advert of the firm that sells the body featured above
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAMMIO-SPYDER-BODYSHELLS-195...

Edited by singlecoil on Wednesday 12th January 20:06

[Russ Bost]

If there is an Ackermann issue it's not difficult to get around by changing steering arm length/angle.

Can't see any great problem with the rear end (unless I am missing something???), just use a freelander diff & shorten the driveshafts, just avoid the Triumph Herald style of suspension like the plague!

[singlecoil]

Russ Bost said:

Can't see any great problem with the rear end (unless I am missing something???), just use a freelander diff & shorten the driveshafts, just avoid the Triumph Herald style of suspension like the plague!

The issue is the upper spring mountings. The Triumph used a transverse spring bolted to the top of the differential, 7s usually have a mounting underneath the plate where the rollover bar goes, and where several chassis tubes come together. The rear of the Sammio doesn't look to be high enough to provide such an arrangement, so the chassis will be a little bit more complex than just adapting a Locost design. Doable, but needs thinking about.

The engine will need to be between the front wheels (as in the Triumph) so the chassis design at the front will have to allow for that too, as of course in a 7 it's mounted behind the front axle.

[Kevp]

What about torsion bars for the rear suspension?
Otherwise a "push-pull" set up.
I know nothing about suspension, before anyone starts.

[ajprice]

Suzuki Cappuccino front and rear track is 1210mm, I think the engine is more 'front mid engined' than between the front wheels though. There was a thread around a few months ago about a Cappuccino based 'mini cobra'.

[dmulally]

To be honest, I would just build it as it was meant for. The price of that body seems very cheap (with AUD anyway) so i dare say there would be a whole stack of unfinished ones floating around.

I would think if you built it as it was intended but using round tube (for the body steel out) to look more period and got it registered...it would sell.

Otherwise you could do what I did with my lotus 23 build. I just got a big piece of plywood and sat the engine on the ground. Then a seat. Then the four wheels. Then connected the dots to make the bottom rails and went from there.

You could get tricky with an escort live rear axle and cut the housing and half shafts to shorten it. Then you may be able to off centre the engine to one side but thats just thinking out loud. The front track is easily adjustable for width with a space frame.

Great looking car body though and I would love to grab one if I were in England.

[Incorrigible]

dmulally said:

To be honest, I would just build it as it was meant for. The price of that body seems very cheap (with AUD anyway) so i dare say there would be a whole stack of unfinished ones floating around.

I would agree, late model triumph roto-flex rear suspension, stick in a 1.8 k series on a ford type 9. cracking little car

Alternatively, Widen the whole thing by 6-8 inches and do the TVR thing as before

[singlecoil]

Incorrigible said:

dmulally said:

To be honest, I would just build it as it was meant for. The price of that body seems very cheap (with AUD anyway) so i dare say there would be a whole stack of unfinished ones floating around.

I would agree, late model triumph roto-flex rear suspension, stick in a 1.8 k series on a ford type 9. cracking little car

That would mean having a source of transverse leaf springs, though, not to mention the rotoflex driveshafts. Plus there wouldn't be any easy way of adjusting the ride height or the corner weights. Then, of course you would need a differential with a flat on top and threaded holes to which you could bolt the spring.

So yes, if you had access to a good set of Vitesse Mk2 bits it would be ok, but then, if you had the bits, maybe you would have the chassis too, in which case you might as well use it.

Which is sort of getting away from looking at alternatives.



I've thought about this today, a bit, and I was thinking along the lines of a Sierra diff, shortened shafts, uprights similar to the Haynes Roadster, but altered so that the shock/spring could work off the bottom wishbone (need to be stronger to resist the twisting forces). Double wishbone front similar to the Locost, with Cortina uprights with modified/specially made steering arms.

Body could stay pretty much the same, but with the fairing behind the driver's head raised to allow a rollover bar (and IVA necessary upper seatbelt mounting), and then repeated on the passenger's side if there are going to be any passengers.

Edited by singlecoil on Thursday 13th January 22:09

[dmulally]

Hi single coil.

I am not sure you even need to worry about modified steering arms. I would think it would be easier to modify an escort mk2 steering rack as per a locost.

The more you could take features from a haynes or locost the better. Its a proven design and will be a wonderfull little sports car.

Completed cars would sell quite well I imagine. Kits...Im not so sure about...but there is only one way to find out :-)

I find out the answer to that question on the 1st of July this year! Wish me luck!

[singlecoil]

dmulally said:

Kits...Im not so sure about...but there is only one way to find out :-)

I find out the answer to that question on the 1st of July this year! Wish me luck!

Go on then, I'll bite.

[ajprice]

Here's the Cappuccino Cobra website - http://www.baby-cobra.com/default.php?p=catalog

And a couple of PH threads about the car

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[simon3000]

hows this for a chassis.double wishbones front and rear,sierra diff and hub carriers with shortened shafts,cortina front uprights and anarrowed escort rack

[singlecoil]

simon3000 said:

hows this for a chassis.double wishbones front and rear,sierra diff and hub carriers with shortened shafts,cortina front uprights and anarrowed escort rack

Do you have any more pictures of that chassis, looks interesting.

[Comadis]

back to the sammio:

there s a lovely green one for sale at the moment (ebay)

has anybody ever checked the "real" condition of these cars?

i mean there is a link in the ebay advert...and you will get the impression, following this link, that the turnkey cars, which are for sale or have been sold ( a green metallic one recently) are a total botched-up job.

the cars are built up on a herald chassis, as it came directly from ebay, nothing restored, rusty, dirty...a total mess!!!

have you wondered why there arent any enginebay pictures?

i tell you why:

check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1966-TRIUMPH-BASED-SAMMIO-SP...


and the above enginebay looks "spot-on" compared the one which is actually for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1965-TRIUMPH-BASED-SAMMIO-SP...


so you know what i mean!!!

Edited by Comadis on Monday 17th January 22:56

[dmulally]

singlecoil said:

dmulally said:

Kits...Im not so sure about...but there is only one way to find out :-)

I find out the answer to that question on the 1st of July this year! Wish me luck!

Go on then, I'll bite.

Sorry, just saw this...

Sent you an email. Don't really feel like opening up to the l337 masses just yet.

[Incorrigible]

singlecoil said:

Incorrigible said:

dmulally said:

To be honest, I would just build it as it was meant for. The price of that body seems very cheap (with AUD anyway) so i dare say there would be a whole stack of unfinished ones floating around.

I would agree, late model triumph roto-flex rear suspension, stick in a 1.8 k series on a ford type 9. cracking little car

yes, if you had access to a good set of Vitesse Mk2 bits

I've got just that if you want it

How much work are you willing to put in. and how much money. That body looks really nice, I reckon you need to either go with the stock design. Use the body on a Caterfield (or similar) chassis or start from scratch. but each option is very time and money dependant

[singlecoil]

Incorrigible said:

singlecoil said:

Incorrigible said:

dmulally said:

To be honest, I would just build it as it was meant for. The price of that body seems very cheap (with AUD anyway) so i dare say there would be a whole stack of unfinished ones floating around.

I would agree, late model triumph roto-flex rear suspension, stick in a 1.8 k series on a ford type 9. cracking little car

yes, if you had access to a good set of Vitesse Mk2 bits

I've got just that if you want it

I tend to think in terms of more than one example, quite a lot more.

[illyan]

Simon3000
Is that the Haldane/Pilgrim 3000 chassis?

[simon3000]

hi illyan and singlecoil.yes it is the haldane/pilgrim3000 chassis.unfortunately i dont have many photos of the bare chassis.im running a ford cologne v6 which just about fits.im sure it could be redesigned to take more readily avaliable running gear.

[illyan]

Thanks, Simon.
Those coilovers look too good to have come off an old Sierra! Do you remember the make? Also, did you buy them, or were they supplied with the kit?

This is the first decent photo that I've seen of the 3000's chassis and I'd (maybe) like to make something similar. When you bought the kit, did Pilgrim supply any diagrams (blueprints) of the frame?

Thanks, Ian