Vixen S3 - body lift guidance please
Discussion
Dear all,
I am at the early stages of a body of restoration of a '69 Vixen.
I am close to being ready to lift the body but am having some trouble getting the body separated from the chassis. I have searched here and googled but guess I might have missed something. I would appreciate a steer from the experts here rather than break something on the car.
Here is what I have done so far:
- bonnet and front wheel arches off
- all of the accelerator cable, brakes and clutch separated
- all wires etc etc separated at the firewall - clear daylight all the way around the engine
- I have removed six bolts inside the car - one in the footwell and the two behind the seats (anchoring the seat belts)
- I have removed the two bolts at the back (directly below the licence plate)
- I have removed and dropped the handbrake
- I have separated and removed the fuel lines and fuel tank
but I have not removed the glass and I have not taken the doors off (is this making it too heavy?).
Having done all of this there is some 'give' at the front and I can insert a wooden shim between the body and the front of the chassis but the back is rock solid.
What have I missed? Also, it looks like the rear of the body very slightly wraps arond the chassis, so is the correct method to lift the front slightly and then lift backwards and upwards?
Generally, the chassis looks to be in very good condition and once I can get the body off I can start a serious discussion with Adrian about replacement / upgrade of the various suspension components.
Thanks all
Nigel
I am at the early stages of a body of restoration of a '69 Vixen.
I am close to being ready to lift the body but am having some trouble getting the body separated from the chassis. I have searched here and googled but guess I might have missed something. I would appreciate a steer from the experts here rather than break something on the car.
Here is what I have done so far:
- bonnet and front wheel arches off
- all of the accelerator cable, brakes and clutch separated
- all wires etc etc separated at the firewall - clear daylight all the way around the engine
- I have removed six bolts inside the car - one in the footwell and the two behind the seats (anchoring the seat belts)
- I have removed the two bolts at the back (directly below the licence plate)
- I have removed and dropped the handbrake
- I have separated and removed the fuel lines and fuel tank
but I have not removed the glass and I have not taken the doors off (is this making it too heavy?).
Having done all of this there is some 'give' at the front and I can insert a wooden shim between the body and the front of the chassis but the back is rock solid.
What have I missed? Also, it looks like the rear of the body very slightly wraps arond the chassis, so is the correct method to lift the front slightly and then lift backwards and upwards?
Generally, the chassis looks to be in very good condition and once I can get the body off I can start a serious discussion with Adrian about replacement / upgrade of the various suspension components.
Thanks all
Nigel
Not sure about the Vixen, unless its an M chassis model, but even with everything unbolted and removed they can stay stuck down to the chassis as if there is still a fixing somewhere.
After I am sure ther are no fastenings left in place, I try and prise up the corners a few millimeters using a trolly jack, using a piece if wood as a spreader (as big as you can fit in the space you have available) under the body, then get a jemmy or long screw driver under and inbetween the chassis mounting and the isolation rubbers until they seperate.
Be careful not to be to ham fisted, just a little at a time on each corner and at the back.
After I am sure ther are no fastenings left in place, I try and prise up the corners a few millimeters using a trolly jack, using a piece if wood as a spreader (as big as you can fit in the space you have available) under the body, then get a jemmy or long screw driver under and inbetween the chassis mounting and the isolation rubbers until they seperate.
Be careful not to be to ham fisted, just a little at a time on each corner and at the back.
Hi, The following info is from me removing an S3 body, I would think the S2 is very similar.In each footwell there are 4 bolts two at the front and two behind the seats, there are also two bolts under the fuel tank. The steering column also needs to be disconnected. you say that all the wiring in the engine bay is away from the chassis (including earth connections to chassis)and that the brake and clutch are also disconnected then it should lift off. The first time I did it 4 off us liftedthe body clear, I had already jacked it free of the chassis by blocking it with wod as you are trying to do. If it wont come and all above is done then it could be just rust holding the chassis to the body.
Hope this is of help, all the best with it. Dewi
Hope this is of help, all the best with it. Dewi
Have been thinking about my 71 2500 which has same body work. You seem to have mentioned all the fixing bolts: Two at the back, those behind each seat and in the foot-well. Steering column out - Brake - clutch disconnected plus fire wall stuff...
Remove (if you can) the centre console pad and the gear lever will be free of any connection to the body via its gaiter.
If all is out then the body should not be difficult to lift. One person at the back, and one each side at the front - lift and give it wiggle.
Remove (if you can) the centre console pad and the gear lever will be free of any connection to the body via its gaiter.
If all is out then the body should not be difficult to lift. One person at the back, and one each side at the front - lift and give it wiggle.
Thanks all,
It sounds like it should come apart.
The only new info is from Adrian & Dewi/Tvrbuell - they mention two bolts in foorwell and two behind the seats.... I only found one in the footwell. I will check again in the morning.
I am in Asia - 8 hours ahead of you so will check and report back tomorrow.
I think the next move is blocks of wood under the body and very gently lifting with the trolley jack. I will be goimg slowly, prefer to be a day late than have a damaged fibreglass tub.
Thank you
It sounds like it should come apart.
The only new info is from Adrian & Dewi/Tvrbuell - they mention two bolts in foorwell and two behind the seats.... I only found one in the footwell. I will check again in the morning.
I am in Asia - 8 hours ahead of you so will check and report back tomorrow.
I think the next move is blocks of wood under the body and very gently lifting with the trolley jack. I will be goimg slowly, prefer to be a day late than have a damaged fibreglass tub.
Thank you
Lift it biased to rear first.
Rear will lift about 4" then it will spring off the chassis. It is probably just tight in the fibreglass channels, If its sat there for 30 odd years it will just be a bit hesitant to seperate, also the rubber insulator pads tend to stick to the body bottom.
Give it a good clout and don't be frightened of if. you won't damage anything.
to start it off you can place a tyre lever at the rear part of the chassis under the rear valance and give it a bit of help with the tyre lever to get it away. it may just be a snug fit front to back.
the lift tends to be back first, then straight up with back about 3 - 4" higher then you sort of lift as you tease it backwords slightly. Back lifts so that the floorpans clear the rear top chassis then it comes off with a slightly rearward bias.
Vixen S2's on are Bolted BUT! Also check for areas that have been bonded over the cars life when undergoing repairs etc, for example when roll hoops are fitted it is common to fit the hoop through a triangular cut out in the floor then fibreglass it all in to weatherproof it all after it has been bolted to the chassis corner flitches.
Bolts are.. 2 in the front of each footwell but some cars only have 1 in each footwell. 2 in each rear footwell, either side of the seats IE 4 in total. further 2 bolts under the fuel tank. some cars may have also had additional straps welded between the chassis rails to bolt the seats through, generally this will be on a car previously restored or previously prepared for motorsport.
N.
Rear will lift about 4" then it will spring off the chassis. It is probably just tight in the fibreglass channels, If its sat there for 30 odd years it will just be a bit hesitant to seperate, also the rubber insulator pads tend to stick to the body bottom.
Give it a good clout and don't be frightened of if. you won't damage anything.
to start it off you can place a tyre lever at the rear part of the chassis under the rear valance and give it a bit of help with the tyre lever to get it away. it may just be a snug fit front to back.
the lift tends to be back first, then straight up with back about 3 - 4" higher then you sort of lift as you tease it backwords slightly. Back lifts so that the floorpans clear the rear top chassis then it comes off with a slightly rearward bias.
Vixen S2's on are Bolted BUT! Also check for areas that have been bonded over the cars life when undergoing repairs etc, for example when roll hoops are fitted it is common to fit the hoop through a triangular cut out in the floor then fibreglass it all in to weatherproof it all after it has been bolted to the chassis corner flitches.
Bolts are.. 2 in the front of each footwell but some cars only have 1 in each footwell. 2 in each rear footwell, either side of the seats IE 4 in total. further 2 bolts under the fuel tank. some cars may have also had additional straps welded between the chassis rails to bolt the seats through, generally this will be on a car previously restored or previously prepared for motorsport.
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 23 January 19:26
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 23 January 19:28
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 23 January 19:41
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 23 January 19:42
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 23 January 19:50
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 23 January 19:55
S3 1972 ... ('K' regd)
Mine came off after gently pulling and levering with a crowbar and a metal plate as a spreader - the rubber insulators had 'glued' themselves over the years... once I had separated them the body came off easily, but it's surprisingly heavy for a GRP shell. I did remove the doors first, but it's not necessary to get it off the chassis
Has it got original seatbelts ? - I'm thinking that the Wedges have their belts bolted through the body into the chassis. Original S3 belts don't, but just a thought.... (well, part of them do, on the mounting bolts.... but you know what I mean !)
Mine had FOUR bolts on each side, effectively in each corner of the two 'sides' and two behind the seats, and two under the fuel tank, making TEN bolts in total.
Mine came off after gently pulling and levering with a crowbar and a metal plate as a spreader - the rubber insulators had 'glued' themselves over the years... once I had separated them the body came off easily, but it's surprisingly heavy for a GRP shell. I did remove the doors first, but it's not necessary to get it off the chassis
Has it got original seatbelts ? - I'm thinking that the Wedges have their belts bolted through the body into the chassis. Original S3 belts don't, but just a thought.... (well, part of them do, on the mounting bolts.... but you know what I mean !)
Mine had FOUR bolts on each side, effectively in each corner of the two 'sides' and two behind the seats, and two under the fuel tank, making TEN bolts in total.
Edited by RCK974X on Monday 23 January 20:38
Hi Nigel,
I lifted my S3 body with doors and glass intact. You will find that the front is very light in this situation and the weight pivots about the area just behind the doors.
I jacked mine up with wood blocks either side of the body on the edges where the floor meets the rear inner arch, using a pair of jacks. This is a stronger point on the body floor and seems to be fairly central weight wise with doors and glass in (mine has perspex rear screen, glass would be heavier towards the rear). It might be it is just heavier than you expect.
Good luck with it!
Paul
I lifted my S3 body with doors and glass intact. You will find that the front is very light in this situation and the weight pivots about the area just behind the doors.
I jacked mine up with wood blocks either side of the body on the edges where the floor meets the rear inner arch, using a pair of jacks. This is a stronger point on the body floor and seems to be fairly central weight wise with doors and glass in (mine has perspex rear screen, glass would be heavier towards the rear). It might be it is just heavier than you expect.
Good luck with it!
Paul
I just noticed your comment about the 'wrap round'....
No, my body came straight up off the chassis once I got the rubber bits loose, and doesn't seem to wrap over anywhere - perhaps that's just a GRP moulding variation ?.
As I said in a different thread, I hung my shell from the ceiling joists using old seat belts and bolted them through the outside front holes and the two rear holes. Worked a treat and body didn't seem to flex at all..
No, my body came straight up off the chassis once I got the rubber bits loose, and doesn't seem to wrap over anywhere - perhaps that's just a GRP moulding variation ?.
As I said in a different thread, I hung my shell from the ceiling joists using old seat belts and bolted them through the outside front holes and the two rear holes. Worked a treat and body didn't seem to flex at all..
Phew - done it - but wasn't easy.
Here is the technique I used and I spell it out in detail with the hope that it is helpful to those that follow:
1. removed everything to the firewall / bulkhead (see above)
2. removed the fuel tank and lines to the chassis
3. removed hand brake lever
4. removed 8 bolts (one in footwell, two behind the seat and finally, two under the number plate)
5. I then used a good light to follow the chassis all the way around to make sure there were no 'modifications' holding the body to the chassis
6. with the chassis on axle stands I used my trolley jack to tease the body off the chassis corner by corner .... I thought about it and decided that this was going to be less stressful to the body than pulling and tugging the body from above.
Just to add detail to the 'teasing technique':
- with a block of wood on the trolley jack lifting face I started at the front with the wood under the floor where it is strongest (where it joins the front wheel arch). I lifted a few mm and inserted a shim of plywood between the body and chassis anchor plate
- repeated this on the other front corner
- at the back I put the block of wood between the two seat belt anchor points, lifted a few mm, inserted the plywood between the anchor plate and body. Then the other side
- repeat the above inserting more shims along the way until bored and the body should then be about 1 - 2 cm off the chassis
- I then pushed the body back very slightly to release it off the rear chassis cross member (see my comment above that the body slightly wrapped around the rear chassis cross member.
Anyway, it is done. With hindsight I think the car may have been nudged in the rear and the body repaired with a slight sag, maybe just a few mm (hence the slight wrap around the rear cross member). Should be an easy fix in the body shop.
Thanks to all above. I will be back in coming weeks for some more guidance. Thanks in advance.
Nigel
Here is the technique I used and I spell it out in detail with the hope that it is helpful to those that follow:
1. removed everything to the firewall / bulkhead (see above)
2. removed the fuel tank and lines to the chassis
3. removed hand brake lever
4. removed 8 bolts (one in footwell, two behind the seat and finally, two under the number plate)
5. I then used a good light to follow the chassis all the way around to make sure there were no 'modifications' holding the body to the chassis
6. with the chassis on axle stands I used my trolley jack to tease the body off the chassis corner by corner .... I thought about it and decided that this was going to be less stressful to the body than pulling and tugging the body from above.
Just to add detail to the 'teasing technique':
- with a block of wood on the trolley jack lifting face I started at the front with the wood under the floor where it is strongest (where it joins the front wheel arch). I lifted a few mm and inserted a shim of plywood between the body and chassis anchor plate
- repeated this on the other front corner
- at the back I put the block of wood between the two seat belt anchor points, lifted a few mm, inserted the plywood between the anchor plate and body. Then the other side
- repeat the above inserting more shims along the way until bored and the body should then be about 1 - 2 cm off the chassis
- I then pushed the body back very slightly to release it off the rear chassis cross member (see my comment above that the body slightly wrapped around the rear chassis cross member.
Anyway, it is done. With hindsight I think the car may have been nudged in the rear and the body repaired with a slight sag, maybe just a few mm (hence the slight wrap around the rear cross member). Should be an easy fix in the body shop.
Thanks to all above. I will be back in coming weeks for some more guidance. Thanks in advance.
Nigel
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