Front wheel balance
Discussion
Had my new wheels "Road Force" balanced when I had the (used) tyres fitted few weeks ago. Got some serious shakes around 70, thought I'd let them "settle" then get them done again.
Called into a local independant to get them re-balanced (couldn't be bothered to drive all the way to original place), seems a bit better but still very unpleasant around the legal limit.
Wheel bearings are good,all suspension joints replaced last year. Guess next plan is swapping fronts to rears to see if anything changes?
Chap who did them said I need some alignment boss's or hubs to get things right. I thought the four taper seat nuts are what centralises the wheel? Any form of centre boss is just to roughly locate the wheel to make it easier to start the nuts?
Does anywhere still do on the car balancing
Called into a local independant to get them re-balanced (couldn't be bothered to drive all the way to original place), seems a bit better but still very unpleasant around the legal limit.
Wheel bearings are good,all suspension joints replaced last year. Guess next plan is swapping fronts to rears to see if anything changes?
Chap who did them said I need some alignment boss's or hubs to get things right. I thought the four taper seat nuts are what centralises the wheel? Any form of centre boss is just to roughly locate the wheel to make it easier to start the nuts?
Does anywhere still do on the car balancing
what kind of wheels have you fitted? can you als name the brand, size and age of the tyres?
as you said: a tapered seat should centralize the wheels...but are you sure that the wheels fitted need tapered nuts? maybe somebody used the wrong nuts in the past.
have you wheelspacers fitted? i recently came across certain wheel spacers which havent been flat and after installing the wheel was running unbalanced.
did you ever brought the car to a wheel alignemnt centre? wrong settings of track, castor, camber could also have negative influence to your mentioned problem.
another criteria is the condition of all suspension bushes.
have you checked the wheel bearing play with removed brake pads?
as you said: a tapered seat should centralize the wheels...but are you sure that the wheels fitted need tapered nuts? maybe somebody used the wrong nuts in the past.
have you wheelspacers fitted? i recently came across certain wheel spacers which havent been flat and after installing the wheel was running unbalanced.
did you ever brought the car to a wheel alignemnt centre? wrong settings of track, castor, camber could also have negative influence to your mentioned problem.
another criteria is the condition of all suspension bushes.
have you checked the wheel bearing play with removed brake pads?
Edited by Comadis on Saturday 28th January 22:05
Mike,
Have you still got the old wheels? Were the stub axles stripped out of the upright and re-used as the bearing 'weight' damage the stub axles, AND in the dim distant past there were stub axles made with the wrong taper which hit the market place, leading to wheel balance issues, (I returned my stock and replaced my customer units).
Have you thought about balancing the wheels on the car.
Adrian@
Have you still got the old wheels? Were the stub axles stripped out of the upright and re-used as the bearing 'weight' damage the stub axles, AND in the dim distant past there were stub axles made with the wrong taper which hit the market place, leading to wheel balance issues, (I returned my stock and replaced my customer units).
Have you thought about balancing the wheels on the car.
Adrian@
In case it helps ....
I had a front balance problem for a while, and discovered it was because the front wheel bearings had a little play (i.e. too slack), although not damaged. Tightening the wheel bearings sorted hte problem out nicely.
On my wedge, with the wider wheels I had a weird problem - although they were supposed to be balanced, they were terrible. I ended up going to a different place, and they said whoever did the balnce put the inside weights on in the wrong place...
I know it sounds weird but they were great after that
I had a front balance problem for a while, and discovered it was because the front wheel bearings had a little play (i.e. too slack), although not damaged. Tightening the wheel bearings sorted hte problem out nicely.
On my wedge, with the wider wheels I had a weird problem - although they were supposed to be balanced, they were terrible. I ended up going to a different place, and they said whoever did the balnce put the inside weights on in the wrong place...
I know it sounds weird but they were great after that
If the wheels are centered for balancing on the center hole and not by the bolt holes this can cause a problem if the two are not concentric.
It quite normal for the front axles to be worn where the race has turned on the axle allowing some play in the front wheels/bearings. This should not affect wheel balance or wheel wobble (if the wheels are properly balanced) but my car felt better and did not follow road ridges as much after I replaced the front axles.
It quite normal for the front axles to be worn where the race has turned on the axle allowing some play in the front wheels/bearings. This should not affect wheel balance or wheel wobble (if the wheels are properly balanced) but my car felt better and did not follow road ridges as much after I replaced the front axles.
Thanks for advice and suggestions.
Didn't get much chance to play over the weekend but did have a little mess around with a dial gauge this evening. It was cold and dark and I got myself a bit confused (quite easy to do), concentrated on just the nsf but I think my conclusion was similar amount of eccentric run out (1.5mm)with two new wheels (7 x 15 Revolutions) and one old (T slot). So working on a theory of "cost and easiest to do" next step is new wheel bearings. While its stripped down will have a good look around see if anything else is obvious?
Adrian, I've not stripped the stubs from the uprights but not sure what you mean "weight"?
While I'm going this far should I have new stubs and done with? I don't have a blank cheque book but I am getting frustrated that having spent a fair bit of time and money on the car it still isn't a pleasant driving experience (but we'll get there
)
Didn't get much chance to play over the weekend but did have a little mess around with a dial gauge this evening. It was cold and dark and I got myself a bit confused (quite easy to do), concentrated on just the nsf but I think my conclusion was similar amount of eccentric run out (1.5mm)with two new wheels (7 x 15 Revolutions) and one old (T slot). So working on a theory of "cost and easiest to do" next step is new wheel bearings. While its stripped down will have a good look around see if anything else is obvious?
Adrian, I've not stripped the stubs from the uprights but not sure what you mean "weight"?
While I'm going this far should I have new stubs and done with? I don't have a blank cheque book but I am getting frustrated that having spent a fair bit of time and money on the car it still isn't a pleasant driving experience (but we'll get there
)Adrian@ said:
Were the stub axles stripped out of the upright and re-used as the bearing 'weight' damage the stub axles
Hi Mike,
The internal bearings can spin and the underside of the bearing wears into the stub axle, leaving an under cut and ridge on that underside...IF the stub axle is removed and replaced in a different orientation this then gives the bearing real chance of chattering. SO, pads out, 27 lb torque and back one full flat, spin the disc, to check the bearing races for 'noise' and IF you need to replace, checking the stub axle AND bearing housing at that time, Original wheels to test, but perhaps a trip to an ON THE CAR balancing garage, (there, they might do the BMW trick of putting a glass of water on the bonnet whilst if vibrates off, which is fun to see,) BUT you will need to assign/mark and NEVER move any wheel out of the marked position.
Adrian@
The internal bearings can spin and the underside of the bearing wears into the stub axle, leaving an under cut and ridge on that underside...IF the stub axle is removed and replaced in a different orientation this then gives the bearing real chance of chattering. SO, pads out, 27 lb torque and back one full flat, spin the disc, to check the bearing races for 'noise' and IF you need to replace, checking the stub axle AND bearing housing at that time, Original wheels to test, but perhaps a trip to an ON THE CAR balancing garage, (there, they might do the BMW trick of putting a glass of water on the bonnet whilst if vibrates off, which is fun to see,) BUT you will need to assign/mark and NEVER move any wheel out of the marked position.
Adrian@
Thanks Adrian, do you know anywhere that still has an on the car balancer? I've asked a couple of times in the past while having tyres done and got blank looks from young tyre fitters. I thought maybe with the majority of cars now being front wheel drive and possibly health & safety issues they'd all gone?
Adrian@ said:
Hi Mike,
The internal bearings can spin and the underside of the bearing wears into the stub axle, leaving an under cut and ridge on that underside...IF the stub axle is removed and replaced in a different orientation this then gives the bearing real chance of chattering. SO, pads out, 27 lb torque and back one full flat, spin the disc, to check the bearing races for 'noise' and IF you need to replace, checking the stub axle AND bearing housing at that time, Original wheels to test, but perhaps a trip to an ON THE CAR balancing garage, (there, they might do the BMW trick of putting a glass of water on the bonnet whilst if vibrates off, which is fun to see,) BUT you will need to assign/mark and NEVER move any wheel out of the marked position.
Adrian@
IMHO and IF I fully understand what Adrian has just said, and I,ll read it again that has got to be about the worst and most dangerous advice I have EVER read. IF I have misread it I apologiseThe internal bearings can spin and the underside of the bearing wears into the stub axle, leaving an under cut and ridge on that underside...IF the stub axle is removed and replaced in a different orientation this then gives the bearing real chance of chattering. SO, pads out, 27 lb torque and back one full flat, spin the disc, to check the bearing races for 'noise' and IF you need to replace, checking the stub axle AND bearing housing at that time, Original wheels to test, but perhaps a trip to an ON THE CAR balancing garage, (there, they might do the BMW trick of putting a glass of water on the bonnet whilst if vibrates off, which is fun to see,) BUT you will need to assign/mark and NEVER move any wheel out of the marked position.
Adrian@
...Scarbank at Warwick.Gassing Station | TVR Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff