M-series torque settings
Discussion
I've searched the forums for a bolt list and torque settings for the M-series but without success although I see that the S-Series forum have one for their cars.
I've been putting my own bolt list together and would like to add the torque setting so does anyone know if such a list has been posted anywhere?
Thanks in advance for any help!
GB
I've been putting my own bolt list together and would like to add the torque setting so does anyone know if such a list has been posted anywhere?
Thanks in advance for any help!
GB
What have I done now Steve? I have only got 2 gospel torque settings for the car in all my time of working on the 'M'.NEW bearings get 27lbft and backed off 1 flat prior to adding split pin and wheel nuts are 70lbft, GB can add these to a list.
Adrian@
Edited to say, Perhaps we should check with the manufacturer...
Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 21st February 23:40
Adrian@ said:
What have I done now Steve? I have only got 2 gospel torque settings for the car in all my time of working on the 'M'.NEW bearings get 27lbft and backed off 1 flat prior to adding split pin and wheel nuts are 70lbft, GB can add these to a list.
Adrian@
Edited to say, Perhaps we should check with the manufacturer...
Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 21st February 23:40
http://arp-bolts.com/pages/technical_torque_us.sht...
Best,
B.
P.S. Strange that they are giving a value, in the first example, that corresponds to 1/4" 20 (UNC) as opposed to 28 threads per inch.
Edit:
ARP said:
In fact, ARP's in-house Research and Development department has proven that new fasteners using motor oil and other commonly used lubricants such as Moly and EPL typically require 5-7 cycles before final torquing to level out the initial friction and achieve the required preload. Slicker lubricants may reduce the required torque by as much as 20-30% to achieve the desired preload, but compromise in areas of major importance such as preload repeatability, and may yield the fastener prematurely. Typically, the slicker the lubricant, the greater the "preload scatter" or preload error there will be during installation.
Edited by Slow M on Wednesday 22 February 07:34
I'm fine with "tight enough - but not too tight" and I'm sure manufacturer's figures fall into either "covering our a
es" or "pay attention - this really matters" but I've noticed a wide spread of figures from 10 ft ib to 250 ft lb so there must be a fair few where it does matters. What about the suspension bush bolts - are 2 grunts with a 1/2" ratchet OK or do the crush tubes have something to say about that!?
GB
es" or "pay attention - this really matters" but I've noticed a wide spread of figures from 10 ft ib to 250 ft lb so there must be a fair few where it does matters. What about the suspension bush bolts - are 2 grunts with a 1/2" ratchet OK or do the crush tubes have something to say about that!?GB
IMHO Suspension bushes fall to rubber bonded (2 spanners at ride height) and poly, not bonded (2 spanners and the inner tubes allow rotation so ride height does not matter).
Adrian@
Your S lists torque setting for the front suspension bush which is exactly the same bolt thread and application...(nothing I would like to quote though)
Adrian@
Your S lists torque setting for the front suspension bush which is exactly the same bolt thread and application...(nothing I would like to quote though)
oldgeebee said:
What about the suspension bush bolts - are 2 grunts with a 1/2" ratchet OK or do the crush tubes have something to say about that!?
GB
Those bolts are (imho) in effect pivot pins, the nut basically just stop them falling out, so aslong as you're using good (new) "nylok" nuts just nipped up should do ?GB
Maybe I'm trying to overcomplicate it but ... with rubber bushes, the inner tube needs to be solid (immoveable) so that the wishbones rotate by compressing the rubber and with poly, the inner tube also needs to be solid so that the poly can rotate on the tube rather than tube on bolt. Is "nipped up" enough to keep the tubes solid to the chassis or have I got the theory wrong? (wouldn't be the 1st time!).
GB
GB
OK - thanks for all the input, I think we're homing in on what "tight enough" and "but not too tight" means for me as an amateur part-time mechanic!
Looking at the ARP torque for a 1/2" bolt they're talking about min 120 ft lb so that's a lot more than "nipped up" but also a lot more than the 50 ft lb that the S-series list suggests for this bolt. They are probably dealing with bolt material with a very high spec anyway.
I can also see from the ARP table where I got the impression of 10 ft lb to 250 ft lb range from if the starting point for a figure is based on 75% of the max load which is again dependant on material and thread size.
If I decide to use grunt units instead of ft lbs I'll be doing it while the wife's out just in case she gets the wrong idea
GB
Looking at the ARP torque for a 1/2" bolt they're talking about min 120 ft lb so that's a lot more than "nipped up" but also a lot more than the 50 ft lb that the S-series list suggests for this bolt. They are probably dealing with bolt material with a very high spec anyway.
I can also see from the ARP table where I got the impression of 10 ft lb to 250 ft lb range from if the starting point for a figure is based on 75% of the max load which is again dependant on material and thread size.
If I decide to use grunt units instead of ft lbs I'll be doing it while the wife's out just in case she gets the wrong idea
GB
oldgeebee said:
OK - thanks for all the input, I think we're homing in on what "tight enough" and "but not too tight" means for me as an amateur part-time mechanic!
Looking at the ARP torque for a 1/2" bolt they're talking about min 120 ft lb so that's a lot more than "nipped up" but also a lot more than the 50 ft lb that the S-series list suggests for this bolt. They are probably dealing with bolt material with a very high spec anyway.
I can also see from the ARP table where I got the impression of 10 ft lb to 250 ft lb range from if the starting point for a figure is based on 75% of the max load which is again dependant on material and thread size.
If I decide to use grunt units instead of ft lbs I'll be doing it while the wife's out just in case she gets the wrong idea
GB
ARP are writing that specification FOR A PARTICULAR PRODUCT!!! I.e. their 170,000 PSI tensile bolt. That would put a grade 5 bolt past yield. ARP produce superb products. Grade 8 equals 150,000 PSI (150 kips), whereas ARP's lowest rated bolt is 170,000 PSI. Grade 5 standard is 85,000. Looking at the ARP torque for a 1/2" bolt they're talking about min 120 ft lb so that's a lot more than "nipped up" but also a lot more than the 50 ft lb that the S-series list suggests for this bolt. They are probably dealing with bolt material with a very high spec anyway.
I can also see from the ARP table where I got the impression of 10 ft lb to 250 ft lb range from if the starting point for a figure is based on 75% of the max load which is again dependant on material and thread size.
If I decide to use grunt units instead of ft lbs I'll be doing it while the wife's out just in case she gets the wrong idea
GB
About the other part, ... right. Wouldn't want the spousal unit to hear "lubricate, and ... uuuuurgh!" She'd be so jealous, that you'd have to get rid of the car (or her).
Best,
B.
Slow M said:
ARP are writing that specification FOR A PARTICULAR PRODUCT!!! I.e. their 170,000 PSI tensile bolt.
Yep - got that bit so disregarding the 120 ft lb bit as well - but I can see how they've worked it out now so that satisfies the anal retentive bit of me.I think the grunts have got it.
I'll just have to claim I'm watching a ladies tennis match in the garage (otherwise "nuts" and "nipped up" might appear in the same sentence again).
GB
@oldgeebee
Dear Graham,
Allthough there is a lot of wisdom in the comments of the above I too find that 'set to torque' feels 'loose' (I'm a big guy) so gone like this.
As our cars (got a 3000S too) are an amalgan of several make parts I've got a Haynes for Ford Capri(engine), suspension/brakes; Haynes TR6, standing by are Haynes Ford Cortina 4 and Spitfire. The foregoing will answer your all quests for torque, but off course common sense does help (...)
The haynes guides are to be had on Amazon and thelikes for not to much pennies
btw; like your blog !
cheers
Frank
Dear Graham,
Allthough there is a lot of wisdom in the comments of the above I too find that 'set to torque' feels 'loose' (I'm a big guy) so gone like this.
As our cars (got a 3000S too) are an amalgan of several make parts I've got a Haynes for Ford Capri(engine), suspension/brakes; Haynes TR6, standing by are Haynes Ford Cortina 4 and Spitfire. The foregoing will answer your all quests for torque, but off course common sense does help (...)
The haynes guides are to be had on Amazon and thelikes for not to much pennies
btw; like your blog !
cheers
Frank
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