2500M: frame repair

[Renaldo]

Guys, is it possible to do a limited frame repair (rust) on an M, effectively and properly, without removing the body?

Everything I've read indicates the body must come off.

Just curious.

[GAjon]

Outriggers and some of the front braces maybe.
The problem is the area above and around the diff which is a known corrosion hot spot on the M series, these really are body off to do properly.

[DavidY]

As GAjon, says you can do some with the body in situ, more if you jack it up off the chassis, but.... to do the job properly the body really needs to come off. It only takes 3-4 hours to get the body off, it can be lifted with all glass in and the doors on, just take out the seats to loose some weight. It's not as big a job as it sounds!

[Renaldo]

John, thanks. Just as I suspected...

[Renaldo]

David, thanks. Encouraging to hear the body comes off rather easily.

I imagine you need three or four mates to lift it.

[GAjon]

You'd probably spend more time and effort accessing the repair areas with body on than it would take to lift the whole thing off.
The problem is, spending a fortune just doing the " oh welI might as well while the bodies off" bits.

[jellison]

I had a tube replaced here go on my 3000M 25 years ago (st did I just say that!).

Undid all chassis / body bolts and gently eased up the front a bit till it felt like wires pulling, then kept going on the back (lots of big wooden blots to spread the load until the body "popped" off). Bugger all at the back and it went way up in the air and welder was easily able to cut a tube out and pop another.

[Renaldo]

So, Jon, if I understand correctly, you didn't remove the body entirely. Just lifted it somewhat?

Ron

[thegamekeeper]

jellison said:

I had a tube replaced here go on my 3000M 25 years ago (st did I just say that!).

Undid all chassis / body bolts and gently eased up the front a bit till it felt like wires pulling, then kept going on the back (lots of big wooden blots to spread the load until the body "popped" off). Bugger all at the back and it went way up in the air and welder was easily able to cut a tube out and pop another.

Jelly, I think advancing years and selective memory have blurred your recollection of what you actually did. Without disconnecting the steering column u/j, fuel pipe at rear and wiring loom at rear, and probably removing centre console to release handbrake and gearnob. and the seatbelt mounting to chassis in rear wheel arch nothing is going anywhere.

The quickest but not ultimately the cheapest way to remove the body is with FIRE, dont risk it. If its worth doing do it properly. With decent access and not wanting to refit original 35+ year old brake pipes, fuel lines and body mounting bolts etc 2 people working together we used to be able to get the body ready to remove in less than an hour, first time allowing for more careful dismantling I would say a day. It will take 4 people to lift it off and one to go underneath and disconnect the handbrake warning light wires which you will have forgotten to undo

[whitewolf]

I've just finished doing mine.

Honestly get the body off and you'll be amazed how easy it is and glad you did long term.

Throttle brake pedal(box) and clutch.

2 body bolts per seating footwell at the front, 2 per seating footwell rear of the seats. rear seat belts and two under the fuel tank (under the arse end of car)

gear linkage (pull centre console up around gear stick) i think that was it... :-s


honestly its not that scary and seriously you'll be glad you did!!!

[DavidY]

errr, fuel lines to tank, handbrake cable, bulkhead wiring and probably a few other things...

Best to lift with four people and have one extra to check for what is still connected!

[Renaldo]

Thanks guys! For now, my M's frame is pretty solid (knock on wood). It lived most of its life in the desert of New Mexico.

And just for good measure, I've rust proofed it every year too.

But at least I know removing the body is doable, should it ever need frame work.

Ron

[whitewolf]

I removed my fuel tank (taimar)

Wiring stays on bulk head. just disconnect wiring from engine bay and head lights.

[jellison]

thegamekeeper said:

jellison said:

I had a tube replaced here go on my 3000M 25 years ago (st did I just say that!).

Undid all chassis / body bolts and gently eased up the front a bit till it felt like wires pulling, then kept going on the back (lots of big wooden blots to spread the load until the body "popped" off). Bugger all at the back and it went way up in the air and welder was easily able to cut a tube out and pop another.

Jelly, I think advancing years and selective memory have blurred your recollection of what you actually did. Without disconnecting the steering column u/j, fuel pipe at rear and wiring loom at rear, and probably removing centre console to release handbrake and gearnob. and the seatbelt mounting to chassis in rear wheel arch nothing is going anywhere.

The quickest but not ultimately the cheapest way to remove the body is with FIRE, dont risk it. If its worth doing do it properly. With decent access and not wanting to refit original 35+ year old brake pipes, fuel lines and body mounting bolts etc 2 people working together we used to be able to get the body ready to remove in less than an hour, first time allowing for more careful dismantling I would say a day. It will take 4 people to lift it off and one to go underneath and disconnect the handbrake warning light wires which you will have forgotten to undo

To clarify - yep did obviously disconnect the steering

Front went up about 4-5 inches only, but as free (even just this much) this allowed the back to then come up way up in the air. have apicture of it like this somewhere (have to fish out and scan).

I don't think we did any of that other stuff - it was pretty easy, body right off woul have been a much bigger deal.

[GAjon]

jellison said:

it was pretty easy, body right off woul have been a much bigger deal.

Nah, you'd already done all the work.

The body must have gone back to go up at the front.

[thegamekeeper]

DavidY said:

errr, fuel lines to tank, handbrake cable, bulkhead wiring and probably a few other things...

Best to lift with four people and have one extra to check for what is still connected!

Can anyone else hear an echo?


Yes John, to just replace a sill tube it is possible to "lift" body and I,ve done it many times but that was 25 years ago and most cars are now in need of more advanced chassis work. I wrote an article many years ago in "Sprint" on body removal, the commonest things that are overlooked are the handbrake warning lights wiring as mentioned and the speedo cable but wiring to horns, heater fan, heater hoses, fuel hoses, battery earth often are left connected. All irrelevant since OP,s question was obviously slightly rhetorical. Can you ask a slightly rhetorical question? No answer needed!!


Actually the article was on Vixen body removal, same but different.

Edited by thegamekeeper on Friday 16th March 12:16

[thegamekeeper]

GAjon said:

jellison said:

it was pretty easy, body right off woul have been a much bigger deal.

Nah, you'd already done all the work.

The body must have gone back to go up at the front.

All of the work involves putting the body back on.

[GAjon]

thegamekeeper said:

All of the work involves putting the body back on.

Or, in my case, being bothered too!

[jellison]

It was very easy as I remember, just took all chassis bolts out, steering column and very carefully started jacking - front was the hardest as stuck tight after lost of years 77 car with this being done mid 90's, once that popped free with a big wide spreader piece of wood the rest was just careful jacking and checking when thing at the limit of connections (i.e. loom), easy.

When done just unchoked jack it all and popped bolts in, job done.