Discussion
Hi
After a long period (years) of doing nothing to my Taimar I am finally in a position to start working on her - dont ask.
The paint work is micro blistered (and has been since I got it) and I am toying with the idea of doing all the prep/paint work myself on account of the huge cost and varying quality of a professional job. I intend to lift body off and spray using a HVLP DIY spray setup.
The current colour is a metallic blue which I have seen on a number of taimars
What I am interested in, is has anyone been down this road (hoho) before if so would be good to hear experiences. I am assuming that celluose paint would be the only option for DIY which I think rules out metallic finishes? Also how to deal with the micro blisters, are they likely to be in the paint or the gel coat?
Cheers in advance
Rob
After a long period (years) of doing nothing to my Taimar I am finally in a position to start working on her - dont ask.
The paint work is micro blistered (and has been since I got it) and I am toying with the idea of doing all the prep/paint work myself on account of the huge cost and varying quality of a professional job. I intend to lift body off and spray using a HVLP DIY spray setup.
The current colour is a metallic blue which I have seen on a number of taimars
What I am interested in, is has anyone been down this road (hoho) before if so would be good to hear experiences. I am assuming that celluose paint would be the only option for DIY which I think rules out metallic finishes? Also how to deal with the micro blisters, are they likely to be in the paint or the gel coat?
Cheers in advance
Rob
You can get two pack masks with disposable filters. Ive got one, came over from the states I beleive. But the filters havea limited life and need replacing regularly.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gerson-2K-Paint-Spraying...
If your going spend that amount of time i wouldnt go down the cellulose road.
Heres a good link on painting advice http://www.autobody101.com/forums/ . Some of the member projects are really impressive.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gerson-2K-Paint-Spraying...
If your going spend that amount of time i wouldnt go down the cellulose road.
Heres a good link on painting advice http://www.autobody101.com/forums/ . Some of the member projects are really impressive.
Edited by m4tti on Friday 13th April 11:32
Not a task I'd take on myself, lack of knowhow, skill and most of all patience would prevail.
However I know some who have, and very successfuly, so it is a DIY possibilty.
For preparation I believe - 'How to restore fibreglass bodywork' by Miles Wilkins is a good source of information.
Its an Osprey restoration guide publication first printed in 1985.
However I know some who have, and very successfuly, so it is a DIY possibilty.
For preparation I believe - 'How to restore fibreglass bodywork' by Miles Wilkins is a good source of information.
Its an Osprey restoration guide publication first printed in 1985.
GAjon said:
Not a task I'd take on myself, lack of knowhow, skill and most of all patience would prevail.
However I know some who have, and very successfuly, so it is a DIY possibilty.
For preparation I believe - 'How to restore fibreglass bodywork' by Miles Wilkins is a good source of information.
Its an Osprey restoration guide publication first printed in 1985.
Echo that for fibreglass repairs..One of the best no bulsHowever I know some who have, and very successfuly, so it is a DIY possibilty.
For preparation I believe - 'How to restore fibreglass bodywork' by Miles Wilkins is a good source of information.
Its an Osprey restoration guide publication first printed in 1985.
t books you can get for real examples of repairing Glass fibre. In my view painting a car is quite easy..so easy a monkey can do it..What isn't easy is painting a car in a short time which is where a professional wins over. Prep is everything so do the most you can and take the car to a primer finish then keep working on the finish till you are happy with it... You can top coat yourself but an amateur will ultimately apply paint.flat back. apply paint..flat back etc etc..A pro preps, applys paint and machine polishes ..Finish.Amateurs can paint cars very well in watered down dusty garages..It just takes about 5 times longer!! If you are short of cash then it is certainly the way to go.
This was the last car I painted..Jag saphire blue, pearl metallic with a painted stripe and plenty laquer..2 pack finish..Painted in a concrete sectional garage with water brushed floors to keep the dust down. £1000 of paint and materials and approx 1 months work..It can be done!!
I've done a few GRP kit cars, and am going to do my Vixen soon.
Cellulose doesn't really exist anymore (according to my paint shop), it's all acrylic. Pretty much the same process though.
The microblisters.....
My vixen (1972) actually had the paint curling up in some spots ! it had been resprayed many times, which I think may have been some of the problem.
GRP can be difficult for the paint to stick to, which might be a cause. You can buy 'etch primer' which bonds very tightly to aluminium and GRP by acid etching the surface slightly. I will be using that too.
After that it's just a learning process to try to get best finish with no runs, tricky, but doable.
High build primer helps too - it fills in the minor dents etc.
then rub down, and go around a few times...
Lots of light colour coats seem to work for me, but profs do one light, one heavy, one finish, as far as I know anyway. Theory is that last coat is high in thinners to re-melt the surface for a good final finish.
Or perhaps they machine polish it as suggested above.
Cellulose doesn't really exist anymore (according to my paint shop), it's all acrylic. Pretty much the same process though.
The microblisters.....
My vixen (1972) actually had the paint curling up in some spots ! it had been resprayed many times, which I think may have been some of the problem.
GRP can be difficult for the paint to stick to, which might be a cause. You can buy 'etch primer' which bonds very tightly to aluminium and GRP by acid etching the surface slightly. I will be using that too.
After that it's just a learning process to try to get best finish with no runs, tricky, but doable.
High build primer helps too - it fills in the minor dents etc.
then rub down, and go around a few times...
Lots of light colour coats seem to work for me, but profs do one light, one heavy, one finish, as far as I know anyway. Theory is that last coat is high in thinners to re-melt the surface for a good final finish.
Or perhaps they machine polish it as suggested above.
Edited by RCK974X on Friday 13th April 20:36
You cannot hand polish a 2 pack painted car. Thats where you see how hard and durable 2 pack is compared to acrylic or celly based paints. When the cobra was finally laquered we wet flatted the car to rake out all of the orange peel and the car ended up a matt finish. This couldn't be hand polished and at the time I thought I had ruined the paint job. A pro mate came with his compound mop and machine polished the car to a glass like finish.
I do think though that for some cars a celly / acrylic finish can actually give some patina and be in keeping.
The secret of painting fibreglass is to ensure you start with a totally dry shell and do all your prep dry.
N.
I do think though that for some cars a celly / acrylic finish can actually give some patina and be in keeping.
The secret of painting fibreglass is to ensure you start with a totally dry shell and do all your prep dry.
N.
thanks for all that advice much appreciated and good to hear there are other DIY painters getting results.
I have a book I bought years ago when working on my Scimitar "How to restore paint work" by Miles Wilkins which I think may be in the same series as the book mentioned above. A good read and very down to earth.
My original reason for mentioning cellouse paint as I thought for the DIYer it was the easiest option & still seems to be available : http://www.paints4u.com/productsByCat.aspx?MainCat...
My ideal would be keep the same colour which would mean I could get away without painting every thing. Was the original paint 2 pack? Did read the diyer should not venture near 2 pack and it required ovens and special breathing equipment?
Assume the model band, which I like, is painted using a stencil.
Regards
Rob
I have a book I bought years ago when working on my Scimitar "How to restore paint work" by Miles Wilkins which I think may be in the same series as the book mentioned above. A good read and very down to earth.
My original reason for mentioning cellouse paint as I thought for the DIYer it was the easiest option & still seems to be available : http://www.paints4u.com/productsByCat.aspx?MainCat...
My ideal would be keep the same colour which would mean I could get away without painting every thing. Was the original paint 2 pack? Did read the diyer should not venture near 2 pack and it required ovens and special breathing equipment?
Assume the model band, which I like, is painted using a stencil.
Regards
Rob
2 pack is a chemical reactant paint which you mix in 3 parts..paint, Thinner and catylist. it is potentially dangerous in that it contains isocyanates and you should use an air fed mask.. that said celly paint dissolves your brain tissue..All paints are dangerous if you want to sniff them.
What you don't need for a placcy car is an oven. GRP cars are best painted and left to cure at room temperature.
Clear over base 2 packs are now also not available with commercial only being painted in this way..most manufacturers and specialist re-finishers are now switching to water based paints.
If your car is micro blistered then you should essentially flat back and remove all the paint after firstly marking any major star cracks blisters etc with a marker pen.. Then grind out and apply matting and resin to laminate over the crack. Keep this below surface level and finish with a larger area of resin and glass tissue. If you are patient you can build up the level of resin and tissue without the need to use filler. When you have persevered for a good while and worked the finish to somewhere near flat then your next stage is to apply a high build polyester spray filler to the car. I like Upol or 3m Reface which can be applied with a good gun and built up. at this point you contour sand the car and guide coat as required to get the body as smooth as possible...You may have to repeat the process several times. when you are happy then its time to prime, damp flat and paint. if you are keeping the same colour or a flat colour then this process is straight forward.
The following set of pictures shows how its done..the work again was carried out by Geordie the demon glass king in a single garage and shows that if you have the patients you do not need gob loads of filler....No filler has been used in the following sequence. re construction prep, matting and tissue only...
What you don't need for a placcy car is an oven. GRP cars are best painted and left to cure at room temperature.
Clear over base 2 packs are now also not available with commercial only being painted in this way..most manufacturers and specialist re-finishers are now switching to water based paints.
If your car is micro blistered then you should essentially flat back and remove all the paint after firstly marking any major star cracks blisters etc with a marker pen.. Then grind out and apply matting and resin to laminate over the crack. Keep this below surface level and finish with a larger area of resin and glass tissue. If you are patient you can build up the level of resin and tissue without the need to use filler. When you have persevered for a good while and worked the finish to somewhere near flat then your next stage is to apply a high build polyester spray filler to the car. I like Upol or 3m Reface which can be applied with a good gun and built up. at this point you contour sand the car and guide coat as required to get the body as smooth as possible...You may have to repeat the process several times. when you are happy then its time to prime, damp flat and paint. if you are keeping the same colour or a flat colour then this process is straight forward.
The following set of pictures shows how its done..the work again was carried out by Geordie the demon glass king in a single garage and shows that if you have the patients you do not need gob loads of filler....No filler has been used in the following sequence. re construction prep, matting and tissue only...
heightswitch said:
2 pack is a chemical reactant paint which you mix in 3 parts..paint, Thinner and catylist. it is potentially dangerous in that it contains isocyanates and you should use an air fed mask.. that said celly paint dissolves your brain tissue..All paints are dangerous if you want to sniff them.
What you don't need for a placcy car is an oven. GRP cars are best painted and left to cure at room temperature.
Clear over base 2 packs are now also not available with commercial only being painted in this way..most manufacturers and specialist re-finishers are now switching to water based paints.
If your car is micro blistered then you should essentially flat back and remove all the paint after firstly marking any major star cracks blisters etc with a marker pen.. Then grind out and apply matting and resin to laminate over the crack. Keep this below surface level and finish with a larger area of resin and glass tissue. If you are patient you can build up the level of resin and tissue without the need to use filler. When you have persevered for a good while and worked the finish to somewhere near flat then your next stage is to apply a high build polyester spray filler to the car. I like Upol or 3m Reface which can be applied with a good gun and built up. at this point you contour sand the car and guide coat as required to get the body as smooth as possible...You may have to repeat the process several times. when you are happy then its time to prime, damp flat and paint. if you are keeping the same colour or a flat colour then this process is straight forward.
The following set of pictures shows how its done..the work again was carried out by Geordie the demon glass king in a single garage and shows that if you have the patients you do not need gob loads of filler....No filler has been used in the following sequence. re construction prep, matting and tissue only...
Not strictly true. Base coat is water based clear coat is still 2 component iso-cyanate. Very few true water based clear coats are on the market. It Was deemed that going to water based base coat was an improvement as it reduced VOC's of the total paint process.What you don't need for a placcy car is an oven. GRP cars are best painted and left to cure at room temperature.
Clear over base 2 packs are now also not available with commercial only being painted in this way..most manufacturers and specialist re-finishers are now switching to water based paints.
If your car is micro blistered then you should essentially flat back and remove all the paint after firstly marking any major star cracks blisters etc with a marker pen.. Then grind out and apply matting and resin to laminate over the crack. Keep this below surface level and finish with a larger area of resin and glass tissue. If you are patient you can build up the level of resin and tissue without the need to use filler. When you have persevered for a good while and worked the finish to somewhere near flat then your next stage is to apply a high build polyester spray filler to the car. I like Upol or 3m Reface which can be applied with a good gun and built up. at this point you contour sand the car and guide coat as required to get the body as smooth as possible...You may have to repeat the process several times. when you are happy then its time to prime, damp flat and paint. if you are keeping the same colour or a flat colour then this process is straight forward.
The following set of pictures shows how its done..the work again was carried out by Geordie the demon glass king in a single garage and shows that if you have the patients you do not need gob loads of filler....No filler has been used in the following sequence. re construction prep, matting and tissue only...
OOPS !!! When I said "it's all acrylic" I meant instead of celloluse. I didn't mean to include all the 2 pack and lacquer types.
Has anyone else used etch primer ? I find it's truly excellent for bonding to the shell ....
I also remember when you see that pink elephant walking in through the garage door, it's time to nip out and get some fresh air...(cellulose thinners)
Has anyone else used etch primer ? I find it's truly excellent for bonding to the shell ....
I also remember when you see that pink elephant walking in through the garage door, it's time to nip out and get some fresh air...(cellulose thinners)
Edited by RCK974X on Saturday 14th April 00:30
I live in Perth Aust where we have great mechanical tech training colleges, one subject taught is car spray painting. I have had both my Mustang & TVR painted there for a fraction of the cost of a normal spray shop. The quality is great, you only pay for materials [TVR $A1800.00], the work is supervised by qualified instructors & done in specialized booths. These training colleges are always looking for cars to work on. In my case it was only 3 weeks from enquiring till when they started work & a further 2 weeks till it was finished. I would expect that similar training colleges exist all around the UK.Using modern paints can be dangerous so care has to be exercised when using them from a health point of view.
Painting a car to that standard (the cobra) with 2 pack in a single garage is highly impressive. Think I will be going the 2 pack approach - seems to be best option and will make sure all safety precautions are taken.
Got round to looking at my Miles Wilkins painting book and it has a load of info on painting fibreglass cars - takes him the best part of 10 weeks to paint a fibre glass car! And recommends leaving it for a week between each stage to allow any sinking of paint/primer/spray filler to complete. Also recommends using less thinners when painting fibreglass (a "dry spary") to prevent sinking. Has a photo of a taimar in the section on painting decals etc.
Good book - only taken me 10 years to read it
Regards
Robin
Got round to looking at my Miles Wilkins painting book and it has a load of info on painting fibreglass cars - takes him the best part of 10 weeks to paint a fibre glass car! And recommends leaving it for a week between each stage to allow any sinking of paint/primer/spray filler to complete. Also recommends using less thinners when painting fibreglass (a "dry spary") to prevent sinking. Has a photo of a taimar in the section on painting decals etc.
Good book - only taken me 10 years to read it
Regards
Robin
Looks like you might need a newer book 
waterbased base coats needs to be sprayed, dried and clear coated quite quickly as far as the data sheets go. Otherwise I think they can take on water and cuase probs with the clear coat. This may be overkill though ..
You may find somewhere still selling iso based base coat though.
waterbased base coats needs to be sprayed, dried and clear coated quite quickly as far as the data sheets go. Otherwise I think they can take on water and cuase probs with the clear coat. This may be overkill though ..You may find somewhere still selling iso based base coat though.
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