overdrive gearbox on a 3000s ?
Discussion
Adrian@ said:
It is a different chassis and handbrake system...
Adrian@
Get away !... Adrian@
So are you saying there isn't room between the chassis members for an overdrive unit, would it foul the handbrake lever?
Maybe not as cool as nonchalantly flicking the switch into o'drive but have you considered a 5 speed conversion?
There's probably a bell housing around that will mate the type 9 used in the later Cologne engined S Series to the Essex? Or mine has been fitted with the Borg warner T5.
We've got a Taimar body which has obviously been fitted with an overdrive box, as it's got a hole cut in the transmission tunnel on the drivers side. Can't remember whether the hole was for the handbrake or the gearbox, I think it was the handbrake, so it was down near the drivers knee, rather than on the top of the tunnel.
I know on the 1600M you have to change something because the type 9 box uses a larger input shaft, but I think on the essex, it's the same size and number of splines.
phillpot said:
There's probably a bell housing around that will mate the type 9 used in the later Cologne engined S Series to the Essex? Or mine has been fitted with the Borg warner T5.
Isn't it just the standard bellhousing, but with an adapter plate?I know on the 1600M you have to change something because the type 9 box uses a larger input shaft, but I think on the essex, it's the same size and number of splines.
Edited by Cerberus90 on Saturday 8th September 14:55
phillpot said:
Get away !...
So are you saying there isn't room between the chassis members for an overdrive unit, would it foul the handbrake lever?
Maybe not as cool as nonchalantly flicking the switch into o'drive but have you considered a 5 speed conversion?
There's probably a bell housing around that will mate the type 9 used in the later Cologne engined S Series to the Essex? Or mine has been fitted with the Borg warner T5.
The bulk of the box is an issue hence there are tubes missing/moved, along with that the remote gear lever assembly has a bespoke mounting plate the hold the lever and the 3rd/4th gear interlock. Then the gear lever is mounted to the side of the tunnel.So are you saying there isn't room between the chassis members for an overdrive unit, would it foul the handbrake lever?
Maybe not as cool as nonchalantly flicking the switch into o'drive but have you considered a 5 speed conversion?
There's probably a bell housing around that will mate the type 9 used in the later Cologne engined S Series to the Essex? Or mine has been fitted with the Borg warner T5.
I obviously do the T5 conversion (as I did the one on your Taimar) and I do the type 9 conversion (IMHO this needs to be an uprated version of the 2.8 box, or it will quickly fail) again IMHO, for a normal engined car it is the very best thing that you will do to a M series.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Saturday 8th September 15:02
Not that I know of, the early Tasmin 2.8 ran as the 4 speed type 9 version with a hard lever linkage that quickly got a rubber lever bush retro fitted, because of the vibrations from the weak front layshaft bearing vibrating through the drivers hand. The later Tasmin 2.8 AND then the 2.8 'S' ran with the 5 speed type 9 with the rubber lever setup (both suffered from a very long throw). The 2.9 ran with a 2.9 gearbox which has a different front layshaft bearing setup and mostly with a electronic speedo (M's are cable).
SOOOO, The M's need to use a 2.8 with a cable speedo but with a modified front layshaft bearing along with a quickshift (I know that you have one on your 2.9)... BUT, not one of the people who build the this version of the box will cover any warranty if you use the quickshift, I too have to explain this to my customers when they have conversions.
Adrian@
SOOOO, The M's need to use a 2.8 with a cable speedo but with a modified front layshaft bearing along with a quickshift (I know that you have one on your 2.9)... BUT, not one of the people who build the this version of the box will cover any warranty if you use the quickshift, I too have to explain this to my customers when they have conversions.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Saturday 8th September 17:28
I know on the mini gearboxes, the quick shift kits don't speed up the shift, just shorten the throw of the stick, and it can be very easy to crunch the gears if your not careful. Don't know if it's the same on the type 9, I'd assume it is, as I suppose you can't change the speed of the shift without changing the internals of the box and how it works.
Maybe the manufacturers have caught on and stopped any warranty claims for new boxes because people have been destroying boxes from shifting too quick.
Surprised the name hasn't been changed to a 'short shift kit' or something.
Maybe the manufacturers have caught on and stopped any warranty claims for new boxes because people have been destroying boxes from shifting too quick.
Surprised the name hasn't been changed to a 'short shift kit' or something.
Adrian, for clarification, gearboxes....
The 4 speeder fitted to early 2.8 Wedges is *NOT* the 4 speed version of the type 9 as far as I know. It is identical to the 4 speeder fitted to the 3 litre Essex, a type 'E' I beleive. (Capri, Granada 1) The 4 sp forerunner to the type 9 was a type 'B' which was fitted to various high power versions of early Escorts, V4 Corsairs etc and I think also for 2 litre Cortinas and so on. It appeared in the 2.3 Cortina IV/Granada until the 5 speeder came along.
Apparently the Type E was a lot stronger than the type 9 (type B).
I have built a working 5 speed V6 box from a 4 speed 2.3 Cortina bellhousing and a 5 speed 2.0 type 9. The bellh. is a straight swop, but you have to replace the 4 cyl input shaft with a 6 cyl of right ratio (2.3 Sierra) in main gbox. I also fitted upgraded roller bearings.
The 4 sp box in my Wedge is definitely NOT a type B / 9 case ....
I agree completely that the weak spot of type 9 (and B) is the layshaft. Later Granadas had a modified setup with no layshaft, and taper roller bearings at each end instead.
I don't think there is a 'standard' bellhousing which mates a 3.0 Essex to a type 9 5 speeder, unfortunately. A T5 is superior box anyway....but a lot wider.
On 1600M and Ford 4 pots, all you need is a different spigot bearing (as far as I know) as input shaft has bigger 'end', but clutch splines and bellhousings are the same from 1600 Kent through to at least 2.0 'Pinto' OHC motor, and possibly later ones too.
(DEFINITELY true for 2.8 V6 4 to 5 speed box, just a new spigot bush reqd.)
The 4 speeder fitted to early 2.8 Wedges is *NOT* the 4 speed version of the type 9 as far as I know. It is identical to the 4 speeder fitted to the 3 litre Essex, a type 'E' I beleive. (Capri, Granada 1) The 4 sp forerunner to the type 9 was a type 'B' which was fitted to various high power versions of early Escorts, V4 Corsairs etc and I think also for 2 litre Cortinas and so on. It appeared in the 2.3 Cortina IV/Granada until the 5 speeder came along.
Apparently the Type E was a lot stronger than the type 9 (type B).
I have built a working 5 speed V6 box from a 4 speed 2.3 Cortina bellhousing and a 5 speed 2.0 type 9. The bellh. is a straight swop, but you have to replace the 4 cyl input shaft with a 6 cyl of right ratio (2.3 Sierra) in main gbox. I also fitted upgraded roller bearings.
The 4 sp box in my Wedge is definitely NOT a type B / 9 case ....
I agree completely that the weak spot of type 9 (and B) is the layshaft. Later Granadas had a modified setup with no layshaft, and taper roller bearings at each end instead.
I don't think there is a 'standard' bellhousing which mates a 3.0 Essex to a type 9 5 speeder, unfortunately. A T5 is superior box anyway....but a lot wider.
On 1600M and Ford 4 pots, all you need is a different spigot bearing (as far as I know) as input shaft has bigger 'end', but clutch splines and bellhousings are the same from 1600 Kent through to at least 2.0 'Pinto' OHC motor, and possibly later ones too.
(DEFINITELY true for 2.8 V6 4 to 5 speed box, just a new spigot bush reqd.)
Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 11th September 06:40
Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 11th September 06:41
Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 11th September 06:43
You are correct re the early 4 speed boxes, BUT, as an owner of 2 NEW Tasmins from that period I had both versions of the 4 speeds in my cars as the second was converted to 5 speed whilst I owned, due to it failing.
Adrian@
Your work on your box now is for a 2.8 engine ...
On a 1600 you would need to change the exhaust manifold/exhaust to swap a 5 speed in.
Adrian@
Your work on your box now is for a 2.8 engine ...
On a 1600 you would need to change the exhaust manifold/exhaust to swap a 5 speed in.
Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 11th September 08:05
Adrian, well I've learned something !! I thought all 4 sp wedges had the older, stronger box.
Fair enough. It was my understanding that the type B 4 speeder wasn't up to a 2.8.
Not surprised it wore out quickly, am a bit surprised TVR put them in I guess...
I'm also a bit surprised that a T5 fits in the trans tunnel of an M, gbox seems a LOT bigger.
Does it go into a Vixen S3/Tuscan V6 chassis too (or even an early S1 Wedge) ?
Fair enough. It was my understanding that the type B 4 speeder wasn't up to a 2.8.
Not surprised it wore out quickly, am a bit surprised TVR put them in I guess...
I'm also a bit surprised that a T5 fits in the trans tunnel of an M, gbox seems a LOT bigger.
Does it go into a Vixen S3/Tuscan V6 chassis too (or even an early S1 Wedge) ?
I will pass on the timing of the changes on the Tasmin and then our 280i...The T5 is a very strong box (it fits in, but the bespoke cross member needs lowering on either spacers or 4 stacks of washers) but again,you need to have the choose correct version, IMHO cable driven speedo is a must, but more importantly is the version of syncro ring (picking up a second-hand unit up can be a nightmare) as the wrong version creates a painfully slow selection issue that will make you wish that you had stayed with the OE 4 speed.
Adrian@
I have seen a Tuscan V6 with my conversion kit in it...using a different version of the bell-housing, but fitted non the less.
Adrian@
I have seen a Tuscan V6 with my conversion kit in it...using a different version of the bell-housing, but fitted non the less.
Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 11th September 21:02
I have a T5 (with a 3.8V6) from a 1990 NZ/Aus Holden Commodore sat on the garage floor, and it's been tempting me to put it in the wedge.... It's a electronic sender on gbox though.
T5 is a lovely smooth change on this version, but not as quick as the Ford boxes IMHO.
Do you use new bellhousings on the Essex & Cologne to T5, or an adapter plate ?
T5 is a lovely smooth change on this version, but not as quick as the Ford boxes IMHO.
Do you use new bellhousings on the Essex & Cologne to T5, or an adapter plate ?
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