Decisions...Vixen, 2500m or 3000M
Discussion
Hi all
I’m looking for some advice please, I’ve just stepped out of a Chimaera 450 and am looking for something a little older and more of a classic. A Vixen would appeal on looks alone but there aren’t many around and I think I may miss the performance so not knowing any better I’m looking at M series cars and have seen a couple advertised.
One is a rebuilt 76 3000M, with the chassis, engine and drivetrain all refurbished, the owner is asking £9k. I know it potentially won’t be as reliable as my old Chimaera, which in 3 yrs never let me down, but I just wonder what these standard cars are like in modern traffic with regards to performance, overheating, handling etc.
The other is a non-standard 2500M with a 2.0L ford engine and electronics, again the seller says it’s had a complete overhaul, chassis, drivetrain and suspension thing is they want £12.5k which seems a bit steep and I’d be concerned that I’d struggle to sell it if I needed to as its non-standard.
Given the choice what would you do?
Cheers
I’m looking for some advice please, I’ve just stepped out of a Chimaera 450 and am looking for something a little older and more of a classic. A Vixen would appeal on looks alone but there aren’t many around and I think I may miss the performance so not knowing any better I’m looking at M series cars and have seen a couple advertised.
One is a rebuilt 76 3000M, with the chassis, engine and drivetrain all refurbished, the owner is asking £9k. I know it potentially won’t be as reliable as my old Chimaera, which in 3 yrs never let me down, but I just wonder what these standard cars are like in modern traffic with regards to performance, overheating, handling etc.
The other is a non-standard 2500M with a 2.0L ford engine and electronics, again the seller says it’s had a complete overhaul, chassis, drivetrain and suspension thing is they want £12.5k which seems a bit steep and I’d be concerned that I’d struggle to sell it if I needed to as its non-standard.
Given the choice what would you do?
Cheers
ellesmereFNC said:
Hi all
I’m looking for some advice please, I’ve just stepped out of a Chimaera 450 and am looking for something a little older and more of a classic. A Vixen would appeal on looks alone but there aren’t many around and I think I may miss the performance so not knowing any better I’m looking at M series cars and have seen a couple advertised.
One is a rebuilt 76 3000M, with the chassis, engine and drivetrain all refurbished, the owner is asking £9k. I know it potentially won’t be as reliable as my old Chimaera, which in 3 yrs never let me down, but I just wonder what these standard cars are like in modern traffic with regards to performance, overheating, handling etc.
The other is a non-standard 2500M with a 2.0L ford engine and electronics, again the seller says it’s had a complete overhaul, chassis, drivetrain and suspension thing is they want £12.5k which seems a bit steep and I’d be concerned that I’d struggle to sell it if I needed to as its non-standard.
Given the choice what would you do?
Cheers
Tuscan V6 if you can find one.I’m looking for some advice please, I’ve just stepped out of a Chimaera 450 and am looking for something a little older and more of a classic. A Vixen would appeal on looks alone but there aren’t many around and I think I may miss the performance so not knowing any better I’m looking at M series cars and have seen a couple advertised.
One is a rebuilt 76 3000M, with the chassis, engine and drivetrain all refurbished, the owner is asking £9k. I know it potentially won’t be as reliable as my old Chimaera, which in 3 yrs never let me down, but I just wonder what these standard cars are like in modern traffic with regards to performance, overheating, handling etc.
The other is a non-standard 2500M with a 2.0L ford engine and electronics, again the seller says it’s had a complete overhaul, chassis, drivetrain and suspension thing is they want £12.5k which seems a bit steep and I’d be concerned that I’d struggle to sell it if I needed to as its non-standard.
Given the choice what would you do?
Cheers
Save yourself all the heartache, and when you come to resell (if you decide to) you'll get your money back and possibly more?
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Hi James
Whatever you choose be prepared with rose tinted glasses like all classics they are not like driving a modern car but great fun.
No Problem with the V6 Essex in modern trafic however some people would happily swap the first 2 gears for an extra one at the other end so if you find a car with a 5 speed box worth bying.
If choosing between the two you mentioned i would go with the 3000M if it is fairly standard.
depending on your ability regarding maintanance if your like myself rather green behind the ears its worth getting a car that has not been altered much from OE spec as that way when there are problems and you phone someone for help things are where they would expect them to be.
If however there has been changes then important that all changes are well documented regards parts and what where and how you can get replacments.
Typical example my Brakes are different on the front and without the help of others on here i would have struggled to know where they where from.
Electric upgrades etc may be sensible to someone when restoring a car but important to know what has been done and where they may have moved things to to make life simple when things go wrong.
Others will come up with lots of other suggestions as my experience is limited as i have only had the car for 18 great fun months so no expert just an inthusiastic newbe.
Good luck on your search
Andrew
Whatever you choose be prepared with rose tinted glasses like all classics they are not like driving a modern car but great fun.
No Problem with the V6 Essex in modern trafic however some people would happily swap the first 2 gears for an extra one at the other end so if you find a car with a 5 speed box worth bying.
If choosing between the two you mentioned i would go with the 3000M if it is fairly standard.
depending on your ability regarding maintanance if your like myself rather green behind the ears its worth getting a car that has not been altered much from OE spec as that way when there are problems and you phone someone for help things are where they would expect them to be.
If however there has been changes then important that all changes are well documented regards parts and what where and how you can get replacments.
Typical example my Brakes are different on the front and without the help of others on here i would have struggled to know where they where from.
Electric upgrades etc may be sensible to someone when restoring a car but important to know what has been done and where they may have moved things to to make life simple when things go wrong.
Others will come up with lots of other suggestions as my experience is limited as i have only had the car for 18 great fun months so no expert just an inthusiastic newbe.
Good luck on your search
Andrew
So, older TVR' aren't reliable ? Since when ? MOST of the cars are getting spoilt rotten, so...
Both a Vixen or a Tuscan V6 don't come up for sale all that often (with prizes to match)so probably an M, a Taimar if you like to go shopping, a 3000S if you like opentop motoring or a 3000M. Performance (7.5 s) and handling are great, and fun. And a SORTED and well maintained M shouldn't give you headaches, providing you look after if .........
Both a Vixen or a Tuscan V6 don't come up for sale all that often (with prizes to match)so probably an M, a Taimar if you like to go shopping, a 3000S if you like opentop motoring or a 3000M. Performance (7.5 s) and handling are great, and fun. And a SORTED and well maintained M shouldn't give you headaches, providing you look after if .........
GAjon said:
Save yourself all the heartache, and when you come to resell (if you decide to) you'll get your money back and possibly more?
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Amen to that.http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Great car well maintained you could not do better
Andrew
Hi James,
2 years ago I swapped my Griff 500 after 7 years for a Vixen. I had a good idea of the differences though as I had previously owned a 1600M for 6 years when I was younger. Clearly the Chim is very different as it's a modern car - you start it, it goes comfortably at any speed you wish it to and is relatively reliable and sorted, so you won't be spending weekends doing things to it other than driving it.
A Vixen or M series is an old car that will comfortably go along at 70 or 80mph but you probably won't be wanting to tank down the outside lane at 90mph for long as you feel the speed you're actually doing, where as in a Chim you're much more insulated from it. As they're easy to work on, upgrade projects (small or large) tend to be more likely. If you like the idea of that then that's a bonus.
Driving wise, the older cars are just more fun, although not as fast. Other than on motorways, I get more pleasure driving the Vixen than I did from the Griff 500 or the Chim I had before that. Also don't think that old cars are less reliable than new - it's not the case. There's less to go wrong and when it does it's easier & cheaper to fix.
With older cars you will find bigger differences between examples of the same model. This is because they are easier to modify so things get done to them by owners.
The Zetec engined car you mentioned looks nice and sound as if it's been properly sorted. However as you point out, it may not be as easy to sell as one with an original engine. My 'personal' choice would be to keep to the original engine but modified to help it keep up with modern cars. Others will disagree! Best thing to do is look at (and drive if poss) a few and buy whatever feels right to you.
Good luck...
2 years ago I swapped my Griff 500 after 7 years for a Vixen. I had a good idea of the differences though as I had previously owned a 1600M for 6 years when I was younger. Clearly the Chim is very different as it's a modern car - you start it, it goes comfortably at any speed you wish it to and is relatively reliable and sorted, so you won't be spending weekends doing things to it other than driving it.
A Vixen or M series is an old car that will comfortably go along at 70 or 80mph but you probably won't be wanting to tank down the outside lane at 90mph for long as you feel the speed you're actually doing, where as in a Chim you're much more insulated from it. As they're easy to work on, upgrade projects (small or large) tend to be more likely. If you like the idea of that then that's a bonus.
Driving wise, the older cars are just more fun, although not as fast. Other than on motorways, I get more pleasure driving the Vixen than I did from the Griff 500 or the Chim I had before that. Also don't think that old cars are less reliable than new - it's not the case. There's less to go wrong and when it does it's easier & cheaper to fix.
With older cars you will find bigger differences between examples of the same model. This is because they are easier to modify so things get done to them by owners.
The Zetec engined car you mentioned looks nice and sound as if it's been properly sorted. However as you point out, it may not be as easy to sell as one with an original engine. My 'personal' choice would be to keep to the original engine but modified to help it keep up with modern cars. Others will disagree! Best thing to do is look at (and drive if poss) a few and buy whatever feels right to you.
Good luck...
Adrian@ said:
In reality, I do not have any customers that run a classic TVR EVERY day any more, and all the die hard classic TVR people run a Griff/chimp as the everyday car too.
Adrian@
Ah, Adrian, just the man! Are you open for business over the holiday? I need some more bits, but didn't want to disturb over Xmas.Adrian@
Let me know.
Thanks for the advice guys, It wouldn't be my only car as got a couple of modern boxes to choose from and I only did about 5k miles in the Chimaera a year. I know which way up to hold a spanner and could do simple things like grease the suspension and oil etc.
I think a Tuscan V6 is well out of my "toy" price range, I seem to be leaning towards a 3000M simply due to availability and a little more shove than a 4 cylinder car.
Cheers
I think a Tuscan V6 is well out of my "toy" price range, I seem to be leaning towards a 3000M simply due to availability and a little more shove than a 4 cylinder car.
Cheers
A 3000M will have more 'shove' than a Vixen, but it isn't as nimble, a well set up 1600cc Vixen is a joy to drive, very balanced and surprisingly quick through the corners. 3 litre M cars, tend to understeer at first and then you can balance them on the power (using the rear to steer). The Vixen is quite a bit lighter than the M.
If you want a car for fun short trips/track days/etc, then I would suggest the Vixen, if you want to use it as a cruiser/weekend away car, then an M/Taimar would be a better choice. If you are tall then you will find the later cars easier to get in and out of.
(Think carefully before ugrading an M to a 5 speed box though, many 4 speeders are quite slow (gearchange) whereas the 4 speed is fast. And if you don't do many motorway miles then it will take a long time to pay for the conversion with improved mpg. A standard M should see 27mpg on a long run, probably slightly better than the Chimeara 450))
If you want a car for fun short trips/track days/etc, then I would suggest the Vixen, if you want to use it as a cruiser/weekend away car, then an M/Taimar would be a better choice. If you are tall then you will find the later cars easier to get in and out of.
(Think carefully before ugrading an M to a 5 speed box though, many 4 speeders are quite slow (gearchange) whereas the 4 speed is fast. And if you don't do many motorway miles then it will take a long time to pay for the conversion with improved mpg. A standard M should see 27mpg on a long run, probably slightly better than the Chimeara 450))
So I have owned a Vixen a Taimar and a 3000M in my time all road legal. I agree for shorter runs the Vixen is much lighter agile and chuckable than the Taimar and the M. I would suggest keeping up with fast moving A road traffic would be noisy.
The 3000M is much better for longer runs. If you want to use the car for practical stuff like camping at Le Mans then having the opening boot on the Taimar makes life easier. I also think the Taimar has slightly better interior than an M (but then my M has been mauled.)
It will be interesting to see the outcome of the Taimar Mustang - 302 V8 with fuel injection and a T5 five speed (plus the other Adrian bits ) but with a docile cam. It should have a better spread of power an gears ... closer to a newer car.
I'd go for the best 3 litre car you can find ....
DavidY said:
A 3000M will have more 'shove' than a Vixen, but it isn't as nimble, a well set up 1600cc Vixen is a joy to drive, very balanced and surprisingly quick through the corners. 3 litre M cars, tend to understeer at first and then you can balance them on the power (using the rear to steer). The Vixen is quite a bit lighter than the M.
Well said. Also it's easy & cheap to get a Vixen crossflow to push 120ish bhp (most have already been done). Then compare the 'power to weight' to that of a 3.0l car (more expensive & difficult to modify) and you'll find the Vixen will be a quicker car both through the corners and in a straight line. 3.0l are best bet for cruising though.
Edited by Moto on Sunday 23 December 11:06
Surely the answer will be "Which car do you want"
All of the sensible / practical questions have usually went out of the window when I have happened across a car that I have wanted..
You want a car because you are blinded by its appeal and beauty in your eyes.
Finding your next car is like finding your wife or first girlfriend all over again!!
N.
All of the sensible / practical questions have usually went out of the window when I have happened across a car that I have wanted..
You want a car because you are blinded by its appeal and beauty in your eyes.
Finding your next car is like finding your wife or first girlfriend all over again!!
N.
heightswitch said:
Surely the answer will be "Which car do you want"
All of the sensible / practical questions have usually went out of the window when I have happened across a car that I have wanted..
You want a car because you are blinded by its appeal and beauty in your eyes.
Finding your next car is like finding your wife or first girlfriend all over again!!
N.
You,ve got a good memory. All of the sensible / practical questions have usually went out of the window when I have happened across a car that I have wanted..
You want a car because you are blinded by its appeal and beauty in your eyes.
Finding your next car is like finding your wife or first girlfriend all over again!!
N.
Comparing your first love to a woman is wrong in so many ways. Yes the car will be a constant drain on your wallet but once round the block and one is entitled to half your house and your pension, the other isn,t.
When you want to try another you dont have to buy it, a test drive and move on and test drive another for comparison. Try doing that with a car.
thegamekeeper said:
You,ve got a good memory.
Comparing your first love to a woman is wrong in so many ways. Yes the car will be a constant drain on your wallet but once round the block and one is entitled to half your house and your pension, the other isn,t.
When you want to try another you dont have to buy it, a test drive and move on and test drive another for comparison. Try doing that with a car.
Comparing your first love to a woman is wrong in so many ways. Yes the car will be a constant drain on your wallet but once round the block and one is entitled to half your house and your pension, the other isn,t.
When you want to try another you dont have to buy it, a test drive and move on and test drive another for comparison. Try doing that with a car.
Adrian@ said:
In reality, I do not have any customers that run a classic TVR EVERY day any more, and all the die hard classic TVR people run a Griff/chimp as the everyday car too.
Adrian@
IMC,s most sensible car and his daily driver is a Taimar. Smithy63 from this forum although he has his Vixen also uses an S2 (almost a classic) as his daily driver (apart from a train)for his day job. Lots of people still use S,s , and Rover engined cars as daliy drivers.Adrian@
I think I am Adrian,s customer, since I do,nt get my bits anywere else, it is just that I do,nt need much! But i use my Taimar every day, for my work as a consultant engineer (structural, houses) so I get about the county a lot in complete reliability, well, almost. I have a brake problem at the moment but it is only a master cylinder, and I will get one from Adrian@ as usual, and carry on using it! I recently purchased an S1 280 to take the strain off the Taimar, but I so much prefer the Taimar that the S is laid up . But I still love the memory of my old Vixen! Back in the seventies, I used to Prodsport the Vixen, driving it to and fro from circuit to circuit up and down the country, and it never broke down!
Happy Christmas!
Clive.
Happy Christmas!
Clive.
Probably a bit late now but as the others, older cars aren't less reliable.
There's no ecu to fail
No immob to fail.
No fuel pump to fail.
I'm still running points and condensor and still fires up well and find well. (after sorting my Tappets but that was my own fault.)
I can't compare it to experience in anything other then a tamora, which was literally two to three mins driving. It had great power but much prefer my Taimar.
If you look at most of the posts on here, all you mainly see is immob, pumps and ecu failure threads.
Just my 10p worth.
There's no ecu to fail
No immob to fail.
No fuel pump to fail.
I'm still running points and condensor and still fires up well and find well. (after sorting my Tappets but that was my own fault.)
I can't compare it to experience in anything other then a tamora, which was literally two to three mins driving. It had great power but much prefer my Taimar.
If you look at most of the posts on here, all you mainly see is immob, pumps and ecu failure threads.
Just my 10p worth.
I own a 2500M from 1972 and the pleasure it gives to me is really great.
The sound of the engine is delightfull and the handling is really nice after a good geometry.
Compared to a taimar with the Essex engins i've seen at a TVR french meeting, i definitely prefer my old tr6 one!
These cars are all magical by the way
Cherish them ans they Will give you very big smiles!
The sound of the engine is delightfull and the handling is really nice after a good geometry.
Compared to a taimar with the Essex engins i've seen at a TVR french meeting, i definitely prefer my old tr6 one!
These cars are all magical by the way
Cherish them ans they Will give you very big smiles!
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