oil pressure

[foxdog]

Took the Vixen in recently to have a new cam fitted and now the oil pressure takes a long time to come up to normal reading. I went back to the garage who did the job not very helpful saying it was nothing they had done he did offer to check the oil pump which I have now replaced myself with a Burtons uprated pump the oil pressure now reads 65Ibs the old one ran at 40lbs but it still slow on rising about 10 to 12 seconds.

The cam that came out the journals were grey in colour not polished could it be the cam bearings that need replaceing or does anyone have a easier solution.

Thanks

Edited by foxdog on Monday 7th October 14:14

Edited by foxdog on Monday 7th October 19:22

[griff 200]

Sounds more like something like a small bit of gasket or the like is in you're oil gauge line or sender if elec!!? Check with proper gauge that you know that works , could be air leak on suction pipe but you have checked that on fitting the pump ? This may cause the pump to slowly charge !

[heightswitch]

What drives your oil pump?
N.

[foxdog]

heightswitch said:

What drives your oil pump?
N.

The cam drives the oil pump and the distributor on the same gear.
A

[foxdog]

griff 200 said:

Sounds more like something like a small bit of gasket or the like is in you're oil gauge line or sender if elec!!? Check with proper gauge that you know that works , could be air leak on suction pipe but you have checked that on fitting the pump ? This may cause the pump to slowly charge !

I have checked the oil gauge and it works fine. I asked the guy who did the job about the oil pickup pipe and he said he never removed it so I think I will drop the sump and check for myself.

Thanks for your ideas much appreciated.

A

[griff 200]

If gauge pipe work fittings all ok before you check gaskets ,pick up etc as you have changed you're oil and filter etc. some compact filters are for thin modern oils so may not flow well when oil cold. Fit full size quality filter long shot but you never know. Richard

[heightswitch]

griff 200 said:

If gauge pipe work fittings all ok before you check gaskets ,pick up etc as you have changed you're oil and filter etc. some compact filters are for thin modern oils so may not flow well when oil cold. Fit full size quality filter long shot but you never know. Richard

I switched to genuine motorcraft V8 filters for exactly that reason on the V8, some modern filters are literally too good and restrict the return oil path...But you would have pumped oil pressure up before return.
N

Edited by heightswitch on Monday 7th October 22:06

[phillpot]

heightswitch said:

some modern filters are literally too good and restrict the return oil path...But you would have pumped oil pressure up before return.

I don't follow how a filter can restrict the return oil path ?
surely the normal return path is squirting out from all the bearings and dripping into the sump?

Pick up - pump - filter -pressure relief - main gallery/oil gauge tapping, so an incorrect or partially blocked filter could I guess cause a delay in pressure build up but filters being "too good" is a new one on me ? (but that's the wonder of Forums, you're never too old to learn )

If the problem only started after cam was changed, and I can't see the cam being the problem, what else was changed at the same time, oil and filter, what grade oil was put in? Did the sump come off, could pick up pipe have been disturbed?


[

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 8th October 06:47

[griff 200]

Yes the filter was a long shot but modern engines use thinner oil ,long service intervals so the micron size of the filter is finer ,some cheap small filters do not have the same surface area of material as the originals so my thinking was it may act like a partly blocked filter and as the pump has to push oil through the filter on priming with air until pump has pulled the oil up from the sump making a delay in pressure build up ??? Long shot yes but I've had it when old oil gets too thick with old filter in the winter the pump just stops priming (end of engine)

[Slow M]

Some filters have internal backflow prevention, others don't.

Also possible: bad pressure relief valve or spring or shim pack.

Best,
B.

[phillpot]

Slow M said:

Some filters have internal backflow prevention, others don't.

"Kent" engine, filter hangs down so shouldn't be a problem unlike "Essex" for example where filter is screw end downwards.


Not sure (in fact have no idea) what a shim pack is but logic says if all was well before cam change it's got to be something "they" did ?
To do cam the timing cover obviously came off and to refit that properly sump should have come off and if that came off oil must have been changed, what grade have they put in?

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 8th October 09:56

[heightswitch]

phillpot said:

"Kent" engine, filter hangs down so shouldn't be a problem unlike "Essex" for example where filter is screw end downwards.


Not sure (in fact have no idea) what a shim pack is but logic says if all was well before cam change it's got to be something "they" did ?
To do cam the timing cover obviously came off and to refit that properly sump should have come off and if that came off oil must have been changed, what grade have they put in?

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 8th October 09:56

It must be something the last bods did is always the view taken by people with limited experience of doing the job themselves in my opinion!!

Oil pressure loss could be caused by many things.

Different oil
st in the oil feed line to mechanical gauge
air in oil feed line to oil gauge
faulty electrical sender
different tolerance fit on the cam journals causing a bigger gap which takes longer to pump up.
Partially spun bearing obsuring an oilway
Air in oil system through lack of priming
air leak on oil pick up
different spec oil pump
faulty diaphragm on oil gauge
Gallery plug dislodged

[GadgeS3C]

First thing I'd check is the simple stuff - if they've put a modern thinner oil in it may behave differently wrt flow/pressure, especially when cold.

[heightswitch]

heightswitch said:

It must be something the last bods did is always the view taken by people with limited experience of doing the job themselves in my opinion!!

Oil pressure loss could be caused by many things.

Different oil
st in the oil feed line to mechanical gauge
air in oil feed line to oil gauge
faulty electrical sender
different tolerance fit on the cam journals causing a bigger gap which takes longer to pump up.
Partially spun bearing obsuring an oilway
Air in oil system through lack of priming
air leak on oil pick up
different spec oil pump
faulty diaphragm on oil gauge
Gallery plug dislodged

Also what pump are you now using..if the oil pump has been changed, is it a HP or HV or both? did you change your sump? high volume pumps can empty std sumps faster than they can re-fill, especially if the return path is constricted and you are using oil coolers etc.

After your engine stops, how long does it take the idiot light to come back on with ignition...

First thing I would do is screw a known accurate gauge directly into the oil pressure sender tapping in the block.
N

Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 8th October 10:33

[GadgeS3C]

heightswitch said:

It must be something the last bods did is always the view taken by people with limited experience of doing the job themselves in my opinion!!

Perhaps better described as "something that occurred as a result of the last job is the most likely cause"

[phillpot]

heightswitch said:

It must be something the last bods did is always the view taken by people with limited experience of doing the job themselves in my opinion!!

My limited experience began over 40 years ago (when these were current engines) with an indentured apprenticeship with a Ford main dealer and I could go on to mention helping my late elder brother build, sprint and race a Cortina GT and later a Twin Cam Escort but I don't want to bore you

[the other tim]

phillpot said:

My limited experience began over 40 years ago (when these were current engines) with an indentured apprenticeship with a Ford main dealer and I could go on to mention helping my late elder brother build, sprint and race a Cortina GT and later a Twin Cam Escort but I don't want to bore you

And the only performance oil choice you had was Duckhams or Castrol Gtx!!

[phillpot]

the other tim said:

And the only performance oil choice you had was Duckhams or Castrol Gtx!!

No contest !

My brother worked for Broadspeed for a while, rumour has it Mr Broad would have nothing other than Duckhams, even in the Castrol sponsored Dolomite Sprints they campaigned


Apologies to op for going a little of subject.

[Monkeythree]

Ford crossflow engine?
If so, changing the cam usually involves removing the engine, rocker gear off, pushrods out, sump off and turning it upside down. This is necessary to get the followers off the cam lobes so the cam can be slid out. (it can also be done by using magnets down the pushrod holes but its a PITA).
If the above process was followed but the sump wasn't removed then any accumulated gunk will have wandered out of the sump into places god never intended.
Were the cam bearings changed before installing the new cam?

Tom

[heightswitch]

phillpot said:

My limited experience began over 40 years ago (when these were current engines) with an indentured apprenticeship with a Ford main dealer and I could go on to mention helping my late elder brother build, sprint and race a Cortina GT and later a Twin Cam Escort but I don't want to bore you

And yet you weren't sure about a return oil path