Taimar suffers from oil fumes in cabin
Discussion
Hi everyone.
I've been experiencing strange things on my Taimar since i've had it.
I've covered around 1'000 Km since last summer and i've noticed fumes in the cabin (seriously making you feel sick!).
Common problem is - it seems - the hatch sealing, but it's not really my case.
The fumes get in from under the dashboard.
So i decided to look really into the car and see what was going on in there.
Actually, when i accelerate, oil (as vapour or small floating particles - limited English prevents me from describing it correctly) flows out from the oil filler cap, and when running, these get ventilated into the cabin.
Now the question is, anyone has experienced something like this, and what would explain this phenomena.
I'm a bit scared of damaged piston rings (the car has "only" original 88'000 kms/ 55'000 mls), or can it simply be the filler cap that doesn't seal correctly ?
All ideas welcome !
I've been experiencing strange things on my Taimar since i've had it.
I've covered around 1'000 Km since last summer and i've noticed fumes in the cabin (seriously making you feel sick!).
Common problem is - it seems - the hatch sealing, but it's not really my case.
The fumes get in from under the dashboard.
So i decided to look really into the car and see what was going on in there.
Actually, when i accelerate, oil (as vapour or small floating particles - limited English prevents me from describing it correctly) flows out from the oil filler cap, and when running, these get ventilated into the cabin.
Now the question is, anyone has experienced something like this, and what would explain this phenomena.
I'm a bit scared of damaged piston rings (the car has "only" original 88'000 kms/ 55'000 mls), or can it simply be the filler cap that doesn't seal correctly ?
All ideas welcome !
I don't have any experience with that particular engine (I know others on here definately do), but I have had several Kent X-flows so I'll add my comments. I think you'll find that the cap is in fact a free to air breather. On the X-flow cap (which looks very similar to the one in your picture) vapour travels up the centre of the cap through a gauze pad in the top of the cap and out from under the top edge to atmosphere. I know you can get a 'closed' cap to which you can connect hose to and send to a catch tank. This would solve the issue in the short term but large amounts of vapour could point to problems.
Cheers
Cheers
I think there are two questions here. Firstly, is the volume of fumes from the crank case excessive (could be caused by a number of things) and, secondly, how to stop them getting into the cabin.
I would suggest thinking carefully before blocking the exit for the fumes. If you block it, and the pressure is too great, then it will find, or make, another way to get out (I'm still embarrased to recall blocking a breather on my brother's Fairthorpe Electron Minor's Standard 10 engine, which can run a high crankcase pressure. It lasted 4 competition miles before popping a major oil leak due to a bit of sump gasket getting pushed out).
So understanding whether the exiting fumes are normal in volume (or not) would be good. I'm sure others here can help more than I can for the Essex V6 engine (my Taimar doesn't even have an engine currently).
As to what to do about the fumes, one suggestion I could offer is to pipe them back into the air intake, through a filter to catch any oil droplets, so they just get burned in the engine. This is the factory solution that my Kent engined XR2 has. Or a less good solution IMO is to pipe them under the car so they cannot get sucked inside.
Hope this helps
Nick
I would suggest thinking carefully before blocking the exit for the fumes. If you block it, and the pressure is too great, then it will find, or make, another way to get out (I'm still embarrased to recall blocking a breather on my brother's Fairthorpe Electron Minor's Standard 10 engine, which can run a high crankcase pressure. It lasted 4 competition miles before popping a major oil leak due to a bit of sump gasket getting pushed out).
So understanding whether the exiting fumes are normal in volume (or not) would be good. I'm sure others here can help more than I can for the Essex V6 engine (my Taimar doesn't even have an engine currently).
As to what to do about the fumes, one suggestion I could offer is to pipe them back into the air intake, through a filter to catch any oil droplets, so they just get burned in the engine. This is the factory solution that my Kent engined XR2 has. Or a less good solution IMO is to pipe them under the car so they cannot get sucked inside.
Hope this helps
Nick
Is the PCV (Positive Crankcase Pressure) valve still connected to the rocker cover? From you picture it looks to be a non standard carb? Without this you will have negative crankshaft ventilation. Without this crankcase vapours will not get drawn up into the inlet manifold and, along with the air/fuel mixture, burned up in the combustion chambers. To enable this system to work efficiently the ventilation from the crankcase is controlled via the PCV valve. Adrian@
OK, some close shots of the rocker covers.
The PCV is there, indeed, on one rocker cover, and works.
When i take the rubber tube out, Rpm drop from 1500 to 1000 and the fumes from the fuel filler cap nearly stop. I have to mention that the Ford oil filler cap has an integrated oil filter inside which lets oil vapour go through and get out from small holes all around the cap, so this is a factory setup, and from all Ford Essex engine pictures i've seen, they have only one PCV, just as has mine.
PCV on passenger's side rocker cover
driver's side rocker cover
cabin invaded by fumes!
not the right weather to take a TVR out !
The PCV is there, indeed, on one rocker cover, and works.
When i take the rubber tube out, Rpm drop from 1500 to 1000 and the fumes from the fuel filler cap nearly stop. I have to mention that the Ford oil filler cap has an integrated oil filter inside which lets oil vapour go through and get out from small holes all around the cap, so this is a factory setup, and from all Ford Essex engine pictures i've seen, they have only one PCV, just as has mine.
PCV on passenger's side rocker cover
driver's side rocker cover
cabin invaded by fumes!
not the right weather to take a TVR out !
One method of fume entry into the cabin is via the bonnet opening handles, when I was suffering a bad fume experience, I used some offcuts of carpet, cut a slot in them and stuck them with doublesided tape over the handle in the cabin. It certainly reduced the fumes, though solving it at source is a better option.
davidy
davidy
[quote=Adrian@]From you picture it looks to be a non standard carb? quote]
It had a standard carb when I bought the car new, a Holley carb was fitted later. I never had that problem with oil fumes, just the usual exhaust fumes in the cabin from time to time, but that was due to the questionable seal around the tailgate. Car still looks LOVELY !
It had a standard carb when I bought the car new, a Holley carb was fitted later. I never had that problem with oil fumes, just the usual exhaust fumes in the cabin from time to time, but that was due to the questionable seal around the tailgate. Car still looks LOVELY !
Notanutter said:
Adrian@ said:
From you picture it looks to be a non standard carb? quote]
It had a standard carb when I bought the car new, a Holley carb was fitted later. I never had that problem with oil fumes, just the usual exhaust fumes in the cabin from time to time, but that was due to the questionable seal around the tailgate. Car still looks LOVELY !
It had a standard carb when I bought the car new, a Holley carb was fitted later. I never had that problem with oil fumes, just the usual exhaust fumes in the cabin from time to time, but that was due to the questionable seal around the tailgate. Car still looks LOVELY !
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 5th March 18:31
if the PCV circuit is all as it should be. Then if you are breathing through the top end of the engine and producing oil fumes My advice would be to run a compression test and a bleed down test. I fear you have worn valves / guides / seals??
Does your car kick out blue smoke on start up first thing in the morning?
I notice its a holley carb. Adrian knows a lot more than the venerable old tractor engine than me but I do know that a holley on an Essex makes them run very rich and also potentially washes the bores which could give you ring issues and hence ecxess crank case blow by.
Mind you I am always the bringer of doom looking at the worst outcome.
Neil.
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 5th March 18:32
Notanutter said:
Adrian@ said:
From you picture it looks to be a non standard carb? quote]
It had a standard carb when I bought the car new, a Holley carb was fitted later. I never had that problem with oil fumes, just the usual exhaust fumes in the cabin from time to time, but that was due to the questionable seal around the tailgate. Car still looks LOVELY !
if the PCV circuit is all as it should be. Then if you are breathing through the top end of the engine and producing oil fumes My advice would be to run a compression test and a bleed down test. I fear you have worn valves / guides / seals??It had a standard carb when I bought the car new, a Holley carb was fitted later. I never had that problem with oil fumes, just the usual exhaust fumes in the cabin from time to time, but that was due to the questionable seal around the tailgate. Car still looks LOVELY !
Does your car kick out blue smoke on start up first thing in the morning?
I notice its a holley carb. Adrian knows a lot more about the venerable old tractor engine than me but I do know that a holley on an Essex makes them run very rich and also potentially washes the bores which could give you ring issues and hence excess crank case blow by.
Mind you I am always the bringer of doom looking at the worst outcome.
Neil.
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 5th March 18:31
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 5th March 18:34
Gassing Station | TVR Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff