How to make an M stop and go round corners
Discussion
stainless_steve said:
Open to any ideas chaps,car will be running an LS engine with 500+ bhp with lots of track day action.I'm going to need some good brakes and fully adjustable shocks.
Steve,If you want to look round my M give me a ring and we can organise something. What size wheels do you intend to run - 16s??
Steve
What back end will you be running, what diff, driveshafts, and rear hubs? Because standard driveshafts and rear hubs are going to become a consumable at that sort of horsepower. Whats the weight of the LS compared with the Essex engine? Do you have modify the top chassis rails in the engine bay to get it all to fit?
I would try and track down Dave Smith who put a trick 302 engine in a 3000S, he spent years sorting out the car so that it wouldn't break things, once you know that it is robust then you can start on the handling!
(It is the added stress that you need to consider, not only from your engine, but from the effects of modern, wider rubber - think wishbones, driveshafts, hub bearings, diff mounts, chassis twist, etc)
TVR_owner is obviously another good starting point, he has countless years of M ownership, but obviously his race car will be track focussed and not going on the road at all. You will need more ground clearance (or more skid plates) and probably something slightly softer.
GAjon can probably add to this conversation regarding breaking things (memories of a twisted prop shaft come to mind!)
Personally I would get something on the car, and make the car robust, then make it handle. You are dealing with a lot of unknowns here and going one step at a time mught be advantageous.
davidy
What back end will you be running, what diff, driveshafts, and rear hubs? Because standard driveshafts and rear hubs are going to become a consumable at that sort of horsepower. Whats the weight of the LS compared with the Essex engine? Do you have modify the top chassis rails in the engine bay to get it all to fit?
I would try and track down Dave Smith who put a trick 302 engine in a 3000S, he spent years sorting out the car so that it wouldn't break things, once you know that it is robust then you can start on the handling!
(It is the added stress that you need to consider, not only from your engine, but from the effects of modern, wider rubber - think wishbones, driveshafts, hub bearings, diff mounts, chassis twist, etc)
TVR_owner is obviously another good starting point, he has countless years of M ownership, but obviously his race car will be track focussed and not going on the road at all. You will need more ground clearance (or more skid plates) and probably something slightly softer.
GAjon can probably add to this conversation regarding breaking things (memories of a twisted prop shaft come to mind!)
Personally I would get something on the car, and make the car robust, then make it handle. You are dealing with a lot of unknowns here and going one step at a time mught be advantageous.
davidy
There was a guy in the US who fitted a Chevy 350 (same block, sort of) into an M-chassis, but there was ½ inch gap left for the manifolds (which he hadn't yet worked out how to fit.)
I'll make some enquiries to see if he finished it.
Otherwise, the Ford S/B goes in without problems, as David says and John Wadman proved.
I'll make some enquiries to see if he finished it.
Otherwise, the Ford S/B goes in without problems, as David says and John Wadman proved.
900T-R said:
TVR_owner said:
Terminator said:
but there was ½ inch gap left for the manifolds (which he hadn't yet worked out how to fit.)
1/2" gap - luxury 
900T-R said:
TVR_owner said:
Terminator said:
but there was ½ inch gap left for the manifolds (which he hadn't yet worked out how to fit.)
1/2" gap - luxury 
Sorry, I was being sarcastic - in a funny way of course.
Point to remember, manifolds do not need to be constrained by "what can go down between the engine and chassis" but can go upwards and forward - always assuming you can get off the exhaust port...
My M racer now has some very nice manifolds that run along the top chassis rail and drop in front of the engine.
Terminator said:
TVR_owner said:
My M racer now has some very nice manifolds that run along the top chassis rail and drop in front of the engine.
Mine too - this is a Chevy S/B, although not in a M-chassis.
N.
stainless_steve said:
Open to any ideas chaps,car will be running an LS engine with 500+ bhp with lots of track day action.I'm going to need some good brakes and fully adjustable shocks.
The definitive answer to your question is to not put a 500 hp LS engine in it?N.
a 300hp ford
a 400hp ajp
would all be a lot easier to deal with IMHO
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 11th March 11:08
A Ford 302 (which can be stroked to about 400) is narrower than the GM or Rover engine (and significantly lighter than the GM). This makes it possible to squeeze in an exhaust system without getting rid of the inner fenders.
The first stage to taiming the power is to fit different wheels. 16" X 7" will fit all round without haveing to do any fibreglass work, they don't look too low profile for an old car and there are maximum performance tyres available as 205/55's. My 302 with alloy heads and a T5 gearbox is lighter than the standard 3000 or 2500 M engine and gearbox.
Adrian has fully sorted out brakes, suspensions and anti-roll bars for Turbos with up to 300 RWHP and knows most about high power "M"s. He can give you discs all round if you wish. If you fit really grippy tyres then the rear drums are good enough for decent braking as when the car is standing on its nose the rear brakes do not have to do very much.
Have fun. There are diminishing returns when you get over 300RWHP and you really need to consider drivability at 1200 to 2500 rpm as this is what you will use for both cruising on motorways and driving around town. It gets very conspicuous when I use over 3000 rpm (54 mph in 3rd) at town speeds as wheel spin will occur before I really floor the accelerator and it is loud enough to draw everyones attention. There is no point in a big engine if you have to rev it like a four all the time and can't out accelerate everything without appearing to have to make any effort!
The first stage to taiming the power is to fit different wheels. 16" X 7" will fit all round without haveing to do any fibreglass work, they don't look too low profile for an old car and there are maximum performance tyres available as 205/55's. My 302 with alloy heads and a T5 gearbox is lighter than the standard 3000 or 2500 M engine and gearbox.
Adrian has fully sorted out brakes, suspensions and anti-roll bars for Turbos with up to 300 RWHP and knows most about high power "M"s. He can give you discs all round if you wish. If you fit really grippy tyres then the rear drums are good enough for decent braking as when the car is standing on its nose the rear brakes do not have to do very much.
Have fun. There are diminishing returns when you get over 300RWHP and you really need to consider drivability at 1200 to 2500 rpm as this is what you will use for both cruising on motorways and driving around town. It gets very conspicuous when I use over 3000 rpm (54 mph in 3rd) at town speeds as wheel spin will occur before I really floor the accelerator and it is loud enough to draw everyones attention. There is no point in a big engine if you have to rev it like a four all the time and can't out accelerate everything without appearing to have to make any effort!
TVR_owner said:
stainless_steve said:
Open to any ideas chaps,car will be running an LS engine with 500+ bhp with lots of track day action.I'm going to need some good brakes and fully adjustable shocks.
Steve,If you want to look round my M give me a ring and we can organise something. What size wheels do you intend to run - 16s??
DavidY said:
Steve
What back end will you be running, what diff, driveshafts, and rear hubs? Because standard driveshafts and rear hubs are going to become a consumable at that sort of horsepower. Whats the weight of the LS compared with the Essex engine? Do you have modify the top chassis rails in the engine bay to get it all to fit?
I would try and track down Dave Smith who put a trick 302 engine in a 3000S, he spent years sorting out the car so that it wouldn't break things, once you know that it is robust then you can start on the handling!
(It is the added stress that you need to consider, not only from your engine, but from the effects of modern, wider rubber - think wishbones, driveshafts, hub bearings, diff mounts, chassis twist, etc)
TVR_owner is obviously another good starting point, he has countless years of M ownership, but obviously his race car will be track focussed and not going on the road at all. You will need more ground clearance (or more skid plates) and probably something slightly softer.
GAjon can probably add to this conversation regarding breaking things (memories of a twisted prop shaft come to mind!)
Personally I would get something on the car, and make the car robust, then make it handle. You are dealing with a lot of unknowns here and going one step at a time mught be advantageous.
davidy
David,What back end will you be running, what diff, driveshafts, and rear hubs? Because standard driveshafts and rear hubs are going to become a consumable at that sort of horsepower. Whats the weight of the LS compared with the Essex engine? Do you have modify the top chassis rails in the engine bay to get it all to fit?
I would try and track down Dave Smith who put a trick 302 engine in a 3000S, he spent years sorting out the car so that it wouldn't break things, once you know that it is robust then you can start on the handling!
(It is the added stress that you need to consider, not only from your engine, but from the effects of modern, wider rubber - think wishbones, driveshafts, hub bearings, diff mounts, chassis twist, etc)
TVR_owner is obviously another good starting point, he has countless years of M ownership, but obviously his race car will be track focussed and not going on the road at all. You will need more ground clearance (or more skid plates) and probably something slightly softer.
GAjon can probably add to this conversation regarding breaking things (memories of a twisted prop shaft come to mind!)
Personally I would get something on the car, and make the car robust, then make it handle. You are dealing with a lot of unknowns here and going one step at a time mught be advantageous.
davidy
I think i will use the jag diff,custom prop and driveshafts.Rear hubs not sure yet,open to ideas.
LS will be lighter than the Essex engine.Chassis will be no prob for me to sort out.
Terminator said:
There was a guy in the US who fitted a Chevy 350 (same block, sort of) into an M-chassis, but there was ½ inch gap left for the manifolds (which he hadn't yet worked out how to fit.)
I'll make some enquiries to see if he finished it.
Otherwise, the Ford S/B goes in without problems, as David says and John Wadman proved.
Lots of people have fitted the Ford S/B,i want to be different I'll make some enquiries to see if he finished it.
Otherwise, the Ford S/B goes in without problems, as David says and John Wadman proved.
My manifolds will be no prob and be large enough not to restrict the engine.
pumpkin said:
A Ford 302 (which can be stroked to about 400) is narrower than the GM or Rover engine (and significantly lighter than the GM). This makes it possible to squeeze in an exhaust system without getting rid of the inner fenders.
The first stage to taiming the power is to fit different wheels. 16" X 7" will fit all round without haveing to do any fibreglass work, they don't look too low profile for an old car and there are maximum performance tyres available as 205/55's. My 302 with alloy heads and a T5 gearbox is lighter than the standard 3000 or 2500 M engine and gearbox.
Adrian has fully sorted out brakes, suspensions and anti-roll bars for Turbos with up to 300 RWHP and knows most about high power "M"s. He can give you discs all round if you wish. If you fit really grippy tyres then the rear drums are good enough for decent braking as when the car is standing on its nose the rear brakes do not have to do very much.
Have fun. There are diminishing returns when you get over 300RWHP and you really need to consider drivability at 1200 to 2500 rpm as this is what you will use for both cruising on motorways and driving around town. It gets very conspicuous when I use over 3000 rpm (54 mph in 3rd) at town speeds as wheel spin will occur before I really floor the accelerator and it is loud enough to draw everyones attention. There is no point in a big engine if you have to rev it like a four all the time and can't out accelerate everything without appearing to have to make any effort!
John,The first stage to taiming the power is to fit different wheels. 16" X 7" will fit all round without haveing to do any fibreglass work, they don't look too low profile for an old car and there are maximum performance tyres available as 205/55's. My 302 with alloy heads and a T5 gearbox is lighter than the standard 3000 or 2500 M engine and gearbox.
Adrian has fully sorted out brakes, suspensions and anti-roll bars for Turbos with up to 300 RWHP and knows most about high power "M"s. He can give you discs all round if you wish. If you fit really grippy tyres then the rear drums are good enough for decent braking as when the car is standing on its nose the rear brakes do not have to do very much.
Have fun. There are diminishing returns when you get over 300RWHP and you really need to consider drivability at 1200 to 2500 rpm as this is what you will use for both cruising on motorways and driving around town. It gets very conspicuous when I use over 3000 rpm (54 mph in 3rd) at town speeds as wheel spin will occur before I really floor the accelerator and it is loud enough to draw everyones attention. There is no point in a big engine if you have to rev it like a four all the time and can't out accelerate everything without appearing to have to make any effort!
Your car looks fantastic,any more pics.
My last TVR was a 450 SEAC with solid lifters,tickover was at 1200rpm.The car use to shake sitting at the traffic lights and a b
h to drive in traffic.I know it's not to most peoples taste but this is the sort of thing i like and will be building in to my M.Carn't have it loud like the SEAC though,need to get it down to 98db so i can go on track days.
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