3000m/TR6 splined drive shafts

[Erich Stahler]

The TR6 rear suspension setup derived from the TR6 uses splined driveshaft with a UJ at each end. The trailing arm design allowed the two halves of these shafts to slide inside each other, presumably with suspension travel.

My question is when these sliding shafts were used on the 3000m suspension, as the hub carriers are located with wishbones top and bottom, does this setup allow any splined travel with this setup? assuming not more modern solid shafts with constant velocity joints would work fine? I think the TR6, even with its trailing arm setup can be upgraded to CV joints so presumbly solid shafts would be fine on the 3000m?

I have added some pictures of the Sierra hub conversion as it fits inside the original TVR upright/hub carrier.......

Empty upright


Sierra stub axle and adaptor ring

Sierra hub against adaptor ring


Assembly with disk and wheel mounted
[pic]http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/45548/2707770690103613205S600x600Q85.jpg
[/pic]

Edited by Erich Stahler on Wednesday 28th July 07:36

[thegamekeeper]

Its a bit more complicated and time consuming for me to describe on PH form. Feel free to call and discuss 07831 389500

[Erich Stahler]

thegamekeeper said:

Its a bit more complicated and time consuming for me to describe on PH form. Feel free to call and discuss 07831 389500

Blimey, I was afraid someone might say that!

[pumpkin]

They are actually Triumph 2000 splines which are longer. They do slide. When I had a bad one which did not slide very well the squat from hard acceleration would cause it to lock up and that would destroy the inner U/J. This happened once in less than 200 km when I had a period where I was a bit too enthusiastic in second gear. (Mine is a 5000M so huge amounts of torque) Once I replaced the splines on the bad side my U/J's stopped failing on both sides. It is VERY important to keep the splines lubricated and I suggest disassembling them every few years to clean out the old grease.

[Erich Stahler]

pumpkin said:

They are actually Triumph 2000 splines which are longer. They do slide. When I had a bad one which did not slide very well the squat from hard acceleration would cause it to lock up and that would destroy the inner U/J. This happened once in less than 200 km when I had a period where I was a bit too enthusiastic in second gear. (Mine is a 5000M so huge amounts of torque) Once I replaced the splines on the bad side my U/J's stopped failing on both sides. It is VERY important to keep the splines lubricated and I suggest disassembling them every few years to clean out the old grease.

Its good to hear the Triumph 2000 shafts can take that kind of torque, what kind of diff you running, Sailsbury or TR6?

[pumpkin]

Salisbury 3.07 with LSD. Is the Sierra conversion an easy alternative for TR6 hubs? I had not heard of it before and my wheel bearings do not seem to have a very long life. (They may have a long life now that they have been changed but they seem to need to be tightened up fairly regularly, perhaps because I did not tighten them enough initially)

[heightswitch]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here!

What are you going to do with the car?

You seem to be trying to mis match ford and triumph bits which is never really a good idea.

You can buy indestructable Quaiff TR6 type hubs to bolt into your uprights without breaking. Your uprights will then be the weak link !! You can fabricate steel uprights to go with the hubs.

If you want to retain the 4HU then you can easily use the existing shafts with a different end without going to a ford CV joint shaft.

you could keep the cobbled together stuff and install a cossy diff, then you could use cossy driveshafts or ends built up to suit.

You need to firs decide what you are doing with the car, Then decide how much power you are going to do it with?

it currently looks to be a bit of a hotch potch which needs sorting out!

Neil.

[Seabass]

heightswitch said:

it currently looks to be a bit of a hotch potch which needs sorting out!

A bit of digging...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Erich Stahler]

Seabass said:

heightswitch said:

it currently looks to be a bit of a hotch potch which needs sorting out!

A bit of digging...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The car came with a Sierra diff and converted hubs as per the pictures, it also came with the splined triumph shafts but not the original diff, hence I am asking these questions as I am deciding the best route to take in building the car. I want to make sure I don't exclude the car from too the car as eligible as possible in a few classic racing series.

[heightswitch]

Erich Stahler said:

Seabass said:

heightswitch said:

it currently looks to be a bit of a hotch potch which needs sorting out!

A bit of digging...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The car came with a Sierra diff and converted hubs as per the pictures, it also came with the splined triumph shafts but not the original diff, hence I am asking these questions as I am deciding the best route to take in building the car. I want to make sure I don't exclude the car from too the car as eligible as possible in a few classic racing series.

Where do you want to race?

Tuscan challenge class C, regs are pretty free so mods to your car within the Power to weight class aren't a problem.

You will then also not have too much problem with CSCC, but who knows how long the regs will stay as free as they are.

Class C M's are pushing very respectable horsepower figures on relatively standard drivelines so my advice would be to build the car to run is as many historic series races as possible.

personally I would go back to the original 4HU or find a replacement cossy diff then keep your uprights and hubs in their standard configuration with quaiff hubs.

I think rear discs are overated, the first thing you do when you install is fit a compensating valve to back off the pressures! Most 450hp Fia griffiths are still running Original set ups with drums!

i wouldn't get to complex with too much in the way of one off componantry, it only makes things a pain when you want to change stuff.

This advice is with respect to Running on a V6

Running with a V8 will double your required budget and open you up to a whole new world of financial pain with respect to building a car which won't kill you!!

A properly built V6 car will still frighten you and sounds just as good if not better than the V8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbXBSLRvgHU&fea...

N

Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 29th July 07:34

Edited by heightswitch on Thursday 29th July 07:38

[Slow M]

heightswitch said:

Most 450hp Fia griffiths are still running Original set ups with drums!

...because they have to, else they can't run FIA.

[Erich Stahler]

heightswitch said:

personally I would go back to the original 4HU

What's a 4HU?

heightswitch said:

or find a replacement cossy diff then keep your uprights and hubs in their standard configuration with quaiff hubs.

I still have the Cossy diff? I also have the TR6 hubs and drive shafts and the Cossy hubs with adapter rings to bolt them into the TVR uprights.

I would like to stary as original as possible with the car tuned V6 certainly, would also go for all original rear end, trouble is the don't have the original TR6 diff, can probably get hold of a recon unit from Moss Europe, or a Sailsbury unit which would also be period correct, but then the TR6 UJ yokes wont fit the sailsbury axle flanges. I am happy to keep the drum brakes. Touble is keep hearing horror stories of the original TR6 hubs (the bit that goes inside the upright) breaking, so if one goes down the Quaife hub route that's nearly two grand and surely still not an original setup from the point of view of the scrutineers?

Its starting to look like the Sierra route would be the strongest and cheapest route, only need to get the correct length shatfs and brake bias valve setup, probably still cheaper than the other options, and take my chances with the scrutes when the time comes.

Edited by Erich Stahler on Friday 30th July 22:08

[Erich Stahler]

Slow M said:

heightswitch said:

Most 450hp Fia griffiths are still running Original set ups with drums!

...because they have to, else they can't run FIA.

Hi Slow M, hear you have been having your share of head scratching with your rarer suspension setup, do you have any pictures or info on what choices you have finally taken?

[Slow M]

Erich Stahler said:

Hi Slow M, hear you have been having your share of head scratching with your rarer suspension setup, do you have any pictures or info on what choices you have finally taken?

Erich,
This is how I ended up doing it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,12864
The particular 240SX hubs I use can take a relatively high (~450 ft-lb) torque load (in a 240SX -heavier than my car). The axles will have to be custom made for the torque my engine is expected to make. I'd be happy to send you my CAD drawings to pass along to your machinist if you're interested in going this route.
B

[heightswitch]

Slow M said:

Erich Stahler said:

Hi Slow M, hear you have been having your share of head scratching with your rarer suspension setup, do you have any pictures or info on what choices you have finally taken?

Erich,
This is how I ended up doing it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,12864
The particular 240SX hubs I use can take a relatively high (~450 ft-lb) torque load (in a 240SX -heavier than my car). The axles will have to be custom made for the torque my engine is expected to make. I'd be happy to send you my CAD drawings to pass along to your machinist if you're interested in going this route.
B

Thats one route but you seem to want to build a car for Racing?

If you want to end up with a car that is of any use in historics then it needs to get through the eligibility scrutineer!

Follow the old Mantle of "keep it simple"

Use your uprights with Quaiff Hubs which believe me you will never break. Put a salsbury 4HU back where it needs to be and have some driveshafts made up. North West propshafts in Chorley made mine.

As well as my Historic car we are building a vixen which is fitted with a Cosworth diff and Zetec. As a road car the combination is not an issue. If you want to race though you need to build a car to pass regs, first and foremost. a non std car in terms of major componantry will be very limited where it can play.

as for your budget, thats down to you but buying a set of Quaiff hubs and getting some driveshafts made up will be a whole lot cheaper in the long run. I ended up casting my own uprights in LM25 because I couldn't buy what I wanted off the shelf.

N

[thegamekeeper]

You have to ask yourself, "are you feeling lucky?". Well are you?

[stainless_steve]

thegamekeeper said:

You have to ask yourself, "are you feeling lucky?". Well are you?

Dirty Harry been on the

So 80% discount on the rear hubs sounds great to me i'll have a set


so "am i lucky?"

[stainless_steve]

heightswitch said:

You can buy indestructable Quaiff TR6 type hubs to bolt into your uprights without breaking. Your uprights will then be the weak link !! You can fabricate steel uprights to go with the hubs.



Neil.

Neil,have you anymore details on the steel uprights.
We have a lazer at work,sure i can come to a deal if someone has a drawing or dxf file,would save me time measuring one up.

[thegamekeeper]

No pop for me tonight, been building an engine. You sre probably as lucky as me if you get 80% off anything from Quaiffe. I was only 5 numbers off winning the lottery last night

[stainless_steve]

thegamekeeper said:

No pop for me tonight, been building an engine. You sre probably as lucky as me if you get 80% off anything from Quaiffe. I was only 5 numbers off winning the lottery last night

Worth a try