Hillclimb car

[nature boy]

Hello everyone,
iam looking at buying a track/hilclimb car,been looking at westfields/vortex and iam stumped as what to go for,engine wise,would i be better with a bike engine that has little torque,or go for a duratec which has some?the courses are only short between 50 and 70 seconds,Harewood is an example.

budget wise is under 8 grand.


thanks.

[Truckosaurus]

Check the class structures for the engine size split. You might find that bike engines get bumped up a class or that the larger (2.0/2.3) Duratec engines are lumped in with the V8 powered cars.

There seems to be a very strong Westfield hillclimb scene so it's worth getting along to an actual event and see what people are using and discussing the merits of bike/car engines.

[anonymous-user]

B1. Roadgoing Specialist Production Cars. Car engines up to 1400cc & M/C engines up to 875cc

B2. Roadgoing Specialist Production Cars. Car engines over 1400cc up to 1800cc & M/C engines up to 1125cc

B3. Roadgoing Specialist Production Cars. Car engines over 1800cc & M/C engines over 1125cc

C5. Modified Specialist Production Cars. Car engines up to 1800cc & M/C engines up to 1125cc

C6. Modified Specialist Production Cars. Car engines over 1800cc & M/C engines over 1125cc

thats from the ASWMC but other clubs/regions/championships may dop things differently so you cant really tell who you will be up against on the day as it clubs can merge classes dependant upon entry. that said, you will still get points for your championship regardless of who wins on the day if its all merged or you are in a differenct class. eg, if your chmapionship is <1400cc but on the day you are racing agaisnt <1800cc, if you are the fastest <1400cc car registered for your championship, you get top points. best to build whatever you can afford and have fun rather than chase trophies i always think but anyway....

there are no bike engiens of note under 875cc so you can discount B1

B2. a popular bike engine such as a fireblade (919cc) or a kawasaki ZXR, honda blackbird or Suzuki GSXR engine (1000-1100cc?) puts you in B2 against 1800cc K-series cars, 1700c X-Flows amongst others.

B3. A huyabusa engine (1300cc) puts you against things like duratecs, zetecs and Vx XEs. you can easily get 200 bhp from an XE or a duratec and that low end torque is useful for some courses but at a weight penalty.


C5. Will have to be a ZXR/GSXR, can be fully race prep'd so you can make major weight savings with either car or bike engine. remember a caterham superlight with a k-series will only be 500kgs or there arebouts in road trim, how much lighter can you get a bike engined car

C6. anything goes, even a huyabusa with a turbo but you are also up against k-series that have the potential to kick out 260 or duratecs with 280+....

[nature boy]

Thanks for the quick replys guys.

Pablo,is the weight a big issue,i mean does it make that much differance the duratec v bike engine,iam 15 stone,so would i be better off with the bike engine?
Ive heard a few problems with the gearboxes on the duratecs,or are they just as prone as the bikes?
What are the running costs,i know you can pick bike engines off ebay for 6-700 if anything did go bang!

The bikes can have paddle shift,which can make them slightly quicker,or am i wrong in thinking that?



thanks.

[Toyless]

I would have thought the torque of a good car motor would be the way go on a short twisty uphill course.

Bike motors love revs but have little torque in comparison.

[djone101]

If you have the time it might be worth looking through the HSA website Take a look at the Competitors list and then you can take a look at the results tab - it'll give you a rough picture of what sort of time bike vs car engined cars do up the various hills and sprint courses.

[PJS917]

Go along to an event or two, have a chat with people competing in the cars you are thinking
about and see what they say. The next Harewood is on the 5th June.

[nature boy]

thanks guys.
my friend goes to Harewood,he just missed out on the modified car record a couple of weeks ago.

does anyone know of an event in lancashire or surrounding areas that there is an event on this weekend,i cant seem to find any?

another question,what make of car would best suit hilclimbs,westfield,cateram,indy etc,i know there all basically the same,but is there any better than the otheres,would a wider wheelbase be the first choice?

sorry for all the questions!


thanks.

[anonymous-user]

to be honest, whatever engine you can get that meets the budget is probably a good starting point. for starters a cheap duratec would probably be ideal, loads of them, easy to tune and loads of spare. dont worry about engine weight, you can lose it elsewhere in the car.

chassis wont make the blindest bit of different really, they are welded bits of square steel, some designs are better than others in terms of spreading the load and keeping the car stable but i have seen fast people in locosts built in a shed and slow people in a caterham built by the factory... i'm sure technically the caterham is the better chassis but its the guy behind the wheel who does the hard bit. if you are building it yourself or have the chance, have a look around the chassis as to where some additional bracing would help...

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 26th May 21:31

[nature boy]

thanks for that,i would be buying ready built,and it looks like i will be going for the duratec,like you have said,easy to mod and more torque.

if you spot on post a link up pavlo.

thanks.

[dsl2]

If you do a bit of research you will find that on the hills a bike engined 7 type of car is a better solution to going fast than a car engined one.

[nature boy]

Please exsplain,i thought for short hillclimbs weres there are a few corners a more torguer engine would be better?

[Toyowner]

nature boy said:

Please exsplain,i thought for short hillclimbs weres there are a few corners a more torguer engine would be better?

Would have been my thoguhts too. Having owned a BEC it was all about high corner speed due to light weight,not a style I would expect to use on a tight and twisty hillclimb.

[rdjohn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYk7Pp1Zl70

Did you see this video from a couple of weeks back? Just to whet your appetite.

I too am 15stone and have a Phoenix RGB Fireblade car for track days. I agree with the comment that a Duratec may well be better for a hillclimb bue to a BEC's lack of torque. You would also need to price in a paddle shift for a BEC. I would expect a Duratec to do most of the hill in 2nd, whereas you would be up and down the box on short straights with sprint gearing in a BEC.

I also agree that the biggest difference for a BEC is braking and conering accelarating out of a corner is no quicker than say a Clio Cup car.

[blueg33]

On some hills low down torque can haul you out of the slow corners, the pardon hairpin at Prescott is an example. My Ginetta V8 was quicker in that section than the bike engined cars but slower on other parts.

I havent driven many other cars on the hill, but overall I think the RV8 was too slow, as other Ginettas with smaller capacities were at least as fast. But having said that the G33 was quicker than Lotus Elise's and some caterham types.

But driver makes a huge difference, and I am not that good.

[anonymous-user]

if you are buying second hand, you are better not limiting yourself fot anything and just waiting to see what comes up in budget. regardless of whether its a zetec, xflow, duratec, xe or a bike engine, it will be more than capable enough for a first season or two.