Rough points...?

[Guillotine]

For those who are interested.

Unofficial, but I THINK they're right.

A

http://www.tvrmonster.com/challengestand09.html

[450Nick]

I did them and sent them to G for uploading yesterday.. I know he's been really busy but they should be up as of this evening on the champ website.. Sorry I'm in Egypt at the mo so communication hasn't been great!

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

Hi Andy,

Look like you have given me points, but seeing as I had 2 x DNF then I should still be on 27.

I did most of race one 18.5 minutes, but I did not cross the flag so AFAIK that's still a DNF.

[M4000]

Hi Guys. Points as I see it

Hugh 85
Keith 79
Andy 77
Jamie 69
Darren 62
Perry 60
Cliff 55
Dave C 42
Jason 38
Martin 35
Dave S 34
Gary 27
Leigh 27
Alex 18
Tim 15
Kevan 15
!!!!!!!!!!

[Guillotine]

Hi Leigh,

I just went by the Classification given on the sheets.

Its a minefield and I havn't done it for a year or so.

(Funny how I'm interested again now, isn't it! )

[feeling for DC though...tough in your defending year!)

[tbdgriff500]

that will be the curse of the no.1
i know as i have been there!

[Guillotine]

At least you got it mate!

In the words of J Button
"I might not be the current (world) Champion, but I will always be, J Button (World) Champion"


Tim Davis, TVR European Champion!

[tbdgriff500]

i know, it is indeed a great feeling!

[450Nick]

M4000 said:

Hi Guys. Points as I see it

Hugh 85
Keith 79
Andy 77
Jamie 69
Darren 62
Perry 60
Cliff 55
Dave C 42
Jason 38
Martin 35
Dave S 34
Gary 27
Leigh 27
Alex 18
Tim 15
Kevan 15
!!!!!!!!!!

Nearly right Gary, you have the same as my points sheet apart from Alex G. He should have 19 not 18 as he finished 2nd twice in a race with only 2 starters. In this case the points are halved under new low starter rules, so his 19 points for 2nd place becomes 9.5 for each race.

All other figures are correct.

[Guillotine]

I thought that only full points are awarded in MSA rules.
Hence Alex's 18 for 2 2nds.

[HUI]

From the BRSCC regs for 2011:

http://www.brscc.co.uk/2011/regs/TVR_Regs_11.pdf


Points will be awarded to Competitors listed as classified finishers in the Final Results as follows:
The points in all classes..{A B or C}
1st 21 / 2nd 19 / 3rd 17 / 4th 15 / 5th 13 / 6th 12....this goes down to 17th 1 point
Only full point will be awarded, but there must be more than three cars in class {A B or C} starting the race. If less
then three cars only half point awarded. Fastest lap per {A B or C} class each race 1 bonus point [as long there is a
minimum of three cars in the class racing]. Less than three cars in class no fastest lap point awarded to that class.

Mrs Hui

[AG-WNR]

I allways thought if three or more cars start the race in your class your awarded full points if less than three its half points ? but not sure really lol.

[NTEL]

AG-WNR said:

I allways thought if three or more cars start the race in your class your awarded full points if less than three its half points ? but not sure really lol.

That is how it was last year. Half points meant half points.

[450Nick]

Hmm I'm a little unsure here. I may have to consult with JR when I get back to the UK. Last year I ran it as half points, so the tables were ammended to allow points in increments of 0.5. Its not an issue if I need to round these up or down to the nearest point but I'd like to be correct as I set a rule in my program and then it will be forgotten but will act the same way until I change it. This keeps things consistent and correct.

So I'm guessing popular opinion here is that points are rounded down to the nearest whole number in the event of half points on an odd number?

Edit: I've uploaded a copy of the points sheet I am currently using. It's still a work in progress so its a little rough around the edges, but it does the job. To view a specifc year, right click on the tabs and press unhide then select 2011. This has all of the points rules I'm using, the lap times, weather, weights (not added any yet though) and notes for all races dating back to 2009 at the moment. Feel free to have a poke, and make any suggestions. At some point I'll make it public so everyone can use it to look at laptimes etc across the years at various tracks.

Address: http://www.box.net/shared/paizr4yaicfz4imddpkf

^ Don't foget to enable macros or it won't work correctly. If you don't understand what that means, Google it!

Edit AGAIN:

I've just spoken to JR and he has agreed to go with the round down to the nearest whole number in the event of a .5 increment. I have updated the points sheet and it can be downloaded at the same address I posted above. Alex now has 18 points (sorry Alex!). This does not apply to previous years so they will stay the same. Any problems please shout

Edit last time I promise... Uploaded a new version to whoever already took a copy - noticed a mistake when viewing lap times from specific circuits as it wasn't sorting them correctly. Ammended now

Edited by 450Nick on Thursday 16th June 17:21

Edited by 450Nick on Thursday 16th June 18:04

Edited by 450Nick on Thursday 16th June 18:47

[AG-WNR]

Not your fault Nick points are points matey

[ctsdave]

I'm not really fussed how the points work tbh - it's all for fun as far as I'm concerned

[450Nick]

Well everyone says they're not bothered until the last two races, then everyone suddenly questions the whole system!

[NTEL]

450Nick said:

Well everyone says they're not bothered until the last two races, then everyone suddenly questions the whole system!

Nick, I think you will find that the only people who aren't bothered about the points system are the people who have not committed to do all the races anyway.

I don't mind admitting that it bothers me. OK, some people say points make pratts. I'm a pratt then.

As the regs are so badly written there are two ways that they can be read. I, and others, read them to be that Full points will only be awarded when there are more than three cars in a class, and half points will be awarded when there are less than three cars. Fair enough.

To start messing about with interpretations now, half way through a season, is frankly ludicrous! Especially when proper half points were awarded last year without query under the same badly written regs.

So, after committing to all the rounds and travelling approximately 900 miles to do two of them, up to now, my 42 points now become 40 points ( not that it makes any odds really as my season was doomed to failure before it even began due to the general apathy in Class C at the moment). Rubs salt in the wound really as the committed drivers are being further penalised.

Rant over

[450Nick]

NTEL said:

Nick, I think you will find that the only people who aren't bothered about the points system are the people who have not committed to do all the races anyway.

I don't mind admitting that it bothers me. OK, some people say points make pratts. I'm a pratt then.

As the regs are so badly written there are two ways that they can be read. I, and others, read them to be that Full points will only be awarded when there are more than three cars in a class, and half points will be awarded when there are less than three cars. Fair enough.

To start messing about with interpretations now, half way through a season, is frankly ludicrous! Especially when proper half points were awarded last year without query under the same badly written regs.

So, after committing to all the rounds and travelling approximately 900 miles to do two of them, up to now, my 42 points now become 40 points ( not that it makes any odds really as my season was doomed to failure before it even began due to the general apathy in Class C at the moment). Rubs salt in the wound really as the committed drivers are being further penalised.

Rant over

I understand your points completely Dave (no pun intended), and I have to say I'd feel exactly the same in your position. As I understand it, the series has been made to comply with MSA regs, which is why we moved from the old system to the new one (IMHO less fair than the one we used to run). Last year I hadn't read the regs, I just did as told, so half points were half points. I called JR last night to clear up the issue and his response was that if thats what the MSA says then thats what we run.

Seeing as it has affected the results by adjusting the points to fit the rules as stated, it may be worth giving JR a call to check his standpoint, and get back to me if a different decision is made. I'd have to say though that I think we should stick with the MSA regs, as that's what we were supposed to do this year and last year too. I agree that it isn't fair, as you are obviously gunning for the overall win, and through no fault of your own, that is being jeaprodised. I can only follow the rules as they are written though, and I've made every effort to make the rules transparent and put them into an infallable system so no complaints can be made.

[Chassis 33]

Guillotine said:

I thought that only full points are awarded in MSA rules.
Hence Alex's 18 for 2 2nds.

AFAIK There's no mention of half points being rounded up, down or even existing in the Blue Book. http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blueb... section 1.3.2 is regarding points but the series doesn't adhere to either a) or b) and there's no mention of half points being rounded up or down in the series regs or Supplementary regs either.

Regards
Iain