Discussion
i think this rule is really weird.
on the information we have, when the driver is off the throttle pedal, the engine throttles will now not be allowed to open more than 10 % of their maximum.
the rationale behind this, apparently, is that using the engine to blow gas through/over the diffuser means that the engine becomes a movable aerodynamic device, because it can be used to alter the aerodynamic performance of the car. of course, this argument is massively flawed because using the engine to accelerate the car also alters the aerodynamic performance of the car...
regardless, since the teams can run whatever throttle map they like, why not just create new throttle maps, which are the same as the current ones. only, when the throttle is say, less than 2/3 % depressed (i.e. the driver just has to brush the throttle... you could even make a 'detent' for it) map the engine so that the throttles are wide open and the ignition retarded. thus, when a driver comes off the throttle pedal to brake, he just leaves his foot on it a small amount which then allows the diffuser to be hot blown as it is now, and also circumvents the new ruling about how zero throttle pedal travel must have <10% open throttles.
er, did anyone follow that?
on the information we have, when the driver is off the throttle pedal, the engine throttles will now not be allowed to open more than 10 % of their maximum.
the rationale behind this, apparently, is that using the engine to blow gas through/over the diffuser means that the engine becomes a movable aerodynamic device, because it can be used to alter the aerodynamic performance of the car. of course, this argument is massively flawed because using the engine to accelerate the car also alters the aerodynamic performance of the car...
regardless, since the teams can run whatever throttle map they like, why not just create new throttle maps, which are the same as the current ones. only, when the throttle is say, less than 2/3 % depressed (i.e. the driver just has to brush the throttle... you could even make a 'detent' for it) map the engine so that the throttles are wide open and the ignition retarded. thus, when a driver comes off the throttle pedal to brake, he just leaves his foot on it a small amount which then allows the diffuser to be hot blown as it is now, and also circumvents the new ruling about how zero throttle pedal travel must have <10% open throttles.
er, did anyone follow that?
From my understanding the diffusers are not banned, its the off throttle blowing of the diffuser from the exhaust that is.
Redbull and Renault will likely be the most affected teams. The Renault more so as it's unique exhaust will not channel the 10% off throttle overrun as effectively as the exhaust channelled almost directly through/above/below the diffuser.
No doubt the F1 boffins will find a way way around this after 2-3 races where they will probably have 80% of what would have been lost.
Redbull and Renault will likely be the most affected teams. The Renault more so as it's unique exhaust will not channel the 10% off throttle overrun as effectively as the exhaust channelled almost directly through/above/below the diffuser.
No doubt the F1 boffins will find a way way around this after 2-3 races where they will probably have 80% of what would have been lost.
TheArchitect said:
renaults argument is also to do with valve cooling if i understood scarb properly. RB may also not be the most affected been the only ones to blow the exhaust under the floor so isnt as aggressive with its maps as the Merc, Mclaren and Ferrari.
The rumour is that it's entirely because the Red Bull is so aggressive with the fuel mapping on the overrun that it's so fast in qualifying; they can't run the same map in the race otherwise the fuel would run out.Any argument that this is anything other than an aero device is wrong. You have to have exhaust coming out of the engine when you are on the throttle, you really don't when you are braking. You can't cool a valve down by exploding petrol around it.
Use Psychology said:
if the engine is a movable aerodynamic device when off throttle, then it is when on throttle too.
This.I'm fed up with the FIA banning everything the teams do to try and find a bit of grip these days. We're eventually going to end up with the cars all looking exactly the same which is IMO not what F1 is about.
Use Psychology said:
i think this rule is really weird.
on the information we have, when the driver is off the throttle pedal, the engine throttles will now not be allowed to open more than 10 % of their maximum.
the rationale behind this, apparently, is that using the engine to blow gas through/over the diffuser means that the engine becomes a movable aerodynamic device, because it can be used to alter the aerodynamic performance of the car. of course, this argument is massively flawed because using the engine to accelerate the car also alters the aerodynamic performance of the car...
regardless, since the teams can run whatever throttle map they like, why not just create new throttle maps, which are the same as the current ones. only, when the throttle is say, less than 2/3 % depressed (i.e. the driver just has to brush the throttle... you could even make a 'detent' for it) map the engine so that the throttles are wide open and the ignition retarded. thus, when a driver comes off the throttle pedal to brake, he just leaves his foot on it a small amount which then allows the diffuser to be hot blown as it is now, and also circumvents the new ruling about how zero throttle pedal travel must have <10% open throttles.
er, did anyone follow that?
Yep. But I suspect trainig drivers to "trail throttle" might take some doingon the information we have, when the driver is off the throttle pedal, the engine throttles will now not be allowed to open more than 10 % of their maximum.
the rationale behind this, apparently, is that using the engine to blow gas through/over the diffuser means that the engine becomes a movable aerodynamic device, because it can be used to alter the aerodynamic performance of the car. of course, this argument is massively flawed because using the engine to accelerate the car also alters the aerodynamic performance of the car...
regardless, since the teams can run whatever throttle map they like, why not just create new throttle maps, which are the same as the current ones. only, when the throttle is say, less than 2/3 % depressed (i.e. the driver just has to brush the throttle... you could even make a 'detent' for it) map the engine so that the throttles are wide open and the ignition retarded. thus, when a driver comes off the throttle pedal to brake, he just leaves his foot on it a small amount which then allows the diffuser to be hot blown as it is now, and also circumvents the new ruling about how zero throttle pedal travel must have <10% open throttles.
er, did anyone follow that?
The wheels and even the drivers head are moveable aerodynamic devices! Maybe Bernie should organise a GP on the Moon?
The good thing to come of this latest sillyness is it should shake-up the status quo into a complete unknown.
Hmm... maybe F1 could use a random rule change mid-season every year to stop a runaway leader and force the teams into a new challenge of coming up with new solutions in double quick time, given the massive engineering powerhouses they are today than yesteryear? Certainly beats the sprinkler system idea. NB: tongue-in-cheek
The good thing to come of this latest sillyness is it should shake-up the status quo into a complete unknown.
Hmm... maybe F1 could use a random rule change mid-season every year to stop a runaway leader and force the teams into a new challenge of coming up with new solutions in double quick time, given the massive engineering powerhouses they are today than yesteryear? Certainly beats the sprinkler system idea. NB: tongue-in-cheek
mattikake said:
The wheels and even the drivers head are moveable aerodynamic devices! Maybe Bernie should organise a GP on the Moon?
The good thing to come of this latest sillyness is it should shake-up the status quo into a complete unknown.
Hmm... maybe F1 could use a random rule change mid-season every year to stop a runaway leader and force the teams into a new challenge of coming up with new solutions in double quick time, given the massive engineering powerhouses they are today than yesteryear? Certainly beats the sprinkler system idea. NB: tongue-in-cheek
Yes, it's a bit iffy, especially since the DRS is a moveable aero device. There is no real reason to ban it except that it doesn't work properly on red cars.The good thing to come of this latest sillyness is it should shake-up the status quo into a complete unknown.
Hmm... maybe F1 could use a random rule change mid-season every year to stop a runaway leader and force the teams into a new challenge of coming up with new solutions in double quick time, given the massive engineering powerhouses they are today than yesteryear? Certainly beats the sprinkler system idea. NB: tongue-in-cheek
Sam.F said:
This.
I'm fed up with the FIA banning everything the teams do to try and find a bit of grip these days. We're eventually going to end up with the cars all looking exactly the same which is IMO not what F1 is about.
It is getting ridiculous. And as a side effect, the rules get ever more unfathomable.I'm fed up with the FIA banning everything the teams do to try and find a bit of grip these days. We're eventually going to end up with the cars all looking exactly the same which is IMO not what F1 is about.
I was struggling to understand what exactly was happening, but in Canada Brundle made a comment about them running on 4 cylinders on some corners and it all made sense. If you need 50% throttle around a corner, you run 4 cyclinders and full throttle, then have four cylinders pumping air to the exhaust and then on to the diffuser.
Are they able to program the map so that it cycles through various setups? The cycle could be syncronised to circuit position based on throttle activity, so the car knows which corners want 2, 4, 6 etc cylinders? Or is that not possible with the standard ECU?
Are they able to program the map so that it cycles through various setups? The cycle could be syncronised to circuit position based on throttle activity, so the car knows which corners want 2, 4, 6 etc cylinders? Or is that not possible with the standard ECU?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
In case you weren't sure about the Renaults pipes.
In case you weren't sure about the Renaults pipes.
davepoth said:
The rumour is that it's entirely because the Red Bull is so aggressive with the fuel mapping on the overrun that it's so fast in qualifying; they can't run the same map in the race otherwise the fuel would run out.
Any argument that this is anything other than an aero device is wrong. You have to have exhaust coming out of the engine when you are on the throttle, you really don't when you are braking. You can't cool a valve down by exploding petrol around it.
Thing in they're not always pumping fuel in to blow the diffuser.Any argument that this is anything other than an aero device is wrong. You have to have exhaust coming out of the engine when you are on the throttle, you really don't when you are braking. You can't cool a valve down by exploding petrol around it.
Use Psychology said:
i think this rule is really weird.
on the information we have, when the driver is off the throttle pedal, the engine throttles will now not be allowed to open more than 10 % of their maximum.
the rationale behind this, apparently, is that using the engine to blow gas through/over the diffuser means that the engine becomes a movable aerodynamic device, because it can be used to alter the aerodynamic performance of the car. of course, this argument is massively flawed because using the engine to accelerate the car also alters the aerodynamic performance of the car...
regardless, since the teams can run whatever throttle map they like, why not just create new throttle maps, which are the same as the current ones. only, when the throttle is say, less than 2/3 % depressed (i.e. the driver just has to brush the throttle... you could even make a 'detent' for it) map the engine so that the throttles are wide open and the ignition retarded. thus, when a driver comes off the throttle pedal to brake, he just leaves his foot on it a small amount which then allows the diffuser to be hot blown as it is now, and also circumvents the new ruling about how zero throttle pedal travel must have <10% open throttles.
er, did anyone follow that?
So reconfigure the throtle plates/barrels/buterflies so that at min position they are 50% open when compared to what would be considered standard.on the information we have, when the driver is off the throttle pedal, the engine throttles will now not be allowed to open more than 10 % of their maximum.
the rationale behind this, apparently, is that using the engine to blow gas through/over the diffuser means that the engine becomes a movable aerodynamic device, because it can be used to alter the aerodynamic performance of the car. of course, this argument is massively flawed because using the engine to accelerate the car also alters the aerodynamic performance of the car...
regardless, since the teams can run whatever throttle map they like, why not just create new throttle maps, which are the same as the current ones. only, when the throttle is say, less than 2/3 % depressed (i.e. the driver just has to brush the throttle... you could even make a 'detent' for it) map the engine so that the throttles are wide open and the ignition retarded. thus, when a driver comes off the throttle pedal to brake, he just leaves his foot on it a small amount which then allows the diffuser to be hot blown as it is now, and also circumvents the new ruling about how zero throttle pedal travel must have <10% open throttles.
er, did anyone follow that?
then all you need to do is fit a small baffel into the airbox so that you can start the engine on the grid. once its started - remove baffel and then you have your diffuser exactly as it is now. no need to change a thing except min throtle position capability - which it sounds like they dont use much anyway.
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