GT Cup at it again
Discussion
Seems the GT Cup organizers are doing their very best to stop the TVR Sagaris from being competitive by adding more and more weight to the Sagaris, it's clear to anyone who has seen it race that it is very evident that the Sagaris is not the quickest car on the straights and this decision by the GT Cup is unjustified.
This series is fast becoming a Farce especially with the drivel that comes out the so called technical directors gob.
This series is fast becoming a Farce especially with the drivel that comes out the so called technical directors gob.
If a series doesn't want you it will find ways to oust you, that's been going on since the dawn of motorsport, think back to Mini's in the Monte, the ACO at LeMans etc. If I dont want to lend you my lawnmower, any excuse will do. Simple answer would be for Danny and family to build a second Sag, sell it for £150k and let the money be beaten driving that not the Dancing Donkeys.
Regards
Iain
Regards
Iain
Such a shame they are being handicapped for being better drivers, esp as they have less PTW than some of the others. would love to see one Donkey drivers match Danny's times in Danny's car. also Danny's car AFIAK is the only one that's still road legal, so a bit had to say it's not a production car.
If they want it to be fair, they should had a independent 3rd party to do a test in each car, and compare fastest laps.
If they want it to be fair, they should had a independent 3rd party to do a test in each car, and compare fastest laps.
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
Such a shame they are being handicapped for being better drivers, esp as they have less PTW than some of the others. would love to see one Donkey drivers match Danny's times in Danny's car. also Danny's car AFIAK is the only one that's still road legal, so a bit had to say it's not a production car.
If they want it to be fair, they should had a independent 3rd party to do a test in each car, and compare fastest laps.
Various series have tried that and has lead to teams (allegedly) sabotaging their own cars during equalisation, adjusting ride heights and other suspension geometry to outside of optimum in order to be seen to be slower than they might otherwise be during the equalisation testsIf they want it to be fair, they should had a independent 3rd party to do a test in each car, and compare fastest laps.
Regards
Iain
Chassis 33 said:
Various series have tried that and has lead to teams (allegedly) sabotaging their own cars during equalisation, adjusting ride heights and other suspension geometry to outside of optimum in order to be seen to be slower than they might otherwise be during the equalisation tests
Regards
Iain
Indeed, a few years ago the BGT equalisation test day was a farce..Regards
Iain
Have GT cup publishe p/w and ballast figures for any of the cars?
Graham said:
Indeed, a few years ago the BGT equalisation test day was a farce..
Have GT cup publishe p/w and ballast figures for any of the cars?
No, they did do for Silverstone but have now decided to email individually, which for anyone with a large increase make you obviously suspicious ?Have GT cup publishe p/w and ballast figures for any of the cars?
So that nobody can say that I am talking drivel, let me make a couple of points.
Both the TVRs are very close to the advisory class limit of power to weight.
Mike hasn't entered Snetterton - he hasn't pulled his entry.
Both the TVRs have had a small weight increase to bring them safely below the class limit and I have offered to make my calculations available to the team - hardly what is being put forward here.
Many other cars have had their base weights increased at this time; our problem is that one type of car will have to spend a silly amount of money to increase it's p/w ratio, so it is easier and cheaper for the world to increase the weight of the other cars.
My feeling and hope is that the changes we have made will close up the classes but make no real difference.
Please, please, please watch the racing this weekend, if I have done my job properly we will have good racing without anybody running away. If I have messed up I will hold my hand up and we will make changes.
I can assure you that this is not 'GT Cup at it again'; my job isn't easy - for every TVR whinge I have four Ferrari whinges, three Porsche whinges, five BMW whinges etc etc.
I want good racing.
Danny has no success ballast for qualifying but 20kg for the first race. My feeling is that playing the success ballast is more important than anything else.
Lets go racing.
Andy D
GT Cup Tech Person
Both the TVRs are very close to the advisory class limit of power to weight.
Mike hasn't entered Snetterton - he hasn't pulled his entry.
Both the TVRs have had a small weight increase to bring them safely below the class limit and I have offered to make my calculations available to the team - hardly what is being put forward here.
Many other cars have had their base weights increased at this time; our problem is that one type of car will have to spend a silly amount of money to increase it's p/w ratio, so it is easier and cheaper for the world to increase the weight of the other cars.
My feeling and hope is that the changes we have made will close up the classes but make no real difference.
Please, please, please watch the racing this weekend, if I have done my job properly we will have good racing without anybody running away. If I have messed up I will hold my hand up and we will make changes.
I can assure you that this is not 'GT Cup at it again'; my job isn't easy - for every TVR whinge I have four Ferrari whinges, three Porsche whinges, five BMW whinges etc etc.
I want good racing.
Danny has no success ballast for qualifying but 20kg for the first race. My feeling is that playing the success ballast is more important than anything else.
Lets go racing.
Andy D
GT Cup Tech Person
It's hard to take seriously anything you say, for example your "air intakes on the F430" comment just comes across as the Ferrari drivers are so bloody slow we will make up any old b
ks to give em a advantage,
and after the disgrace of Silverstone it's now clear both Mike and Danny cannot use that round for their dropped race and as such I can understand why they can't be bothered with the series anymore, both Danny and Mike were in with a chance of winning the series before it all kicked off but lets be honest a TVR was never going to be allowed to do that.
ks to give em a advantage,and after the disgrace of Silverstone it's now clear both Mike and Danny cannot use that round for their dropped race and as such I can understand why they can't be bothered with the series anymore, both Danny and Mike were in with a chance of winning the series before it all kicked off but lets be honest a TVR was never going to be allowed to do that.
Well, this is all quite interesting.
Now setting the perameters for a multi-series championship is always going to be a difficult, thankless task and there will always be those who feel hard done by.
But it seems to me that there are some issues here that need to be made clear so that everyone knows where they stand.
The statement that there are queries coming from almost every marque in the championship show that things aren't as transparent as they could be.
1, There are published regulations for the series, detailing classes spec and ptw?
2, The cars carry standardised Dataloggers and are weighted frequently to ensure compliance.
2, The ptw formula - please publish this - comes from data(loggers) and contains a drag coef figure (othetrwise with aero cars agains non aero it all pointless)
3, the series balast is based on this data rather than results.
4, Series ballast is published/freely available.
I have to say, that as a TVR guy I'm biased, but unlike Danny I will not be selling my Tuscan to come and race in GT Cup as there seems to be only one rule.
You win you carry weight. You win again, you carry more weight. You win...guess what.
For the non TVR guys...where does this leave you? If Andy Ruhan pulls a steller weekend there will always be the arguement raised that Danny was weighed out and Mike couldn't be bothered to turn up. Andy had a great showing at Silverstone in Race2, but as BOTH TVRs had been banned (though still carried success/banned ballst at Oulton???) so it was a hollow victory as was hinted on the TV. If he wins the Championship (and good luck to him), who will rate it?
I will state here, that this is NOT Andys fault or doing...just that I'd be peed off if I was him as well.
Finally, as a TVR guy and to show that its not all about pro-TVR.
If the PTW is NOT based on results, just on data.
Why has Danny been given 40kg series ballast and Mike 20kg, when Mike was faster at Brands?
The wet race is irrelevant, but in the dry, Mike was clearly faster, yet less weight has been added??
Confused dot com!
Statements like "it'll be alright this weekend, trust me" and "the cars are close to their class limits" show a cavalier attitude frankly. I know that Craig worked hard to get the car DOWN to the correct weight after silverstone only to have it loaded back up.
Shame really, it was a promising series...
Now setting the perameters for a multi-series championship is always going to be a difficult, thankless task and there will always be those who feel hard done by.
But it seems to me that there are some issues here that need to be made clear so that everyone knows where they stand.
The statement that there are queries coming from almost every marque in the championship show that things aren't as transparent as they could be.
1, There are published regulations for the series, detailing classes spec and ptw?
2, The cars carry standardised Dataloggers and are weighted frequently to ensure compliance.
2, The ptw formula - please publish this - comes from data(loggers) and contains a drag coef figure (othetrwise with aero cars agains non aero it all pointless)
3, the series balast is based on this data rather than results.
4, Series ballast is published/freely available.
I have to say, that as a TVR guy I'm biased, but unlike Danny I will not be selling my Tuscan to come and race in GT Cup as there seems to be only one rule.
You win you carry weight. You win again, you carry more weight. You win...guess what.
For the non TVR guys...where does this leave you? If Andy Ruhan pulls a steller weekend there will always be the arguement raised that Danny was weighed out and Mike couldn't be bothered to turn up. Andy had a great showing at Silverstone in Race2, but as BOTH TVRs had been banned (though still carried success/banned ballst at Oulton???) so it was a hollow victory as was hinted on the TV. If he wins the Championship (and good luck to him), who will rate it?
I will state here, that this is NOT Andys fault or doing...just that I'd be peed off if I was him as well.
Finally, as a TVR guy and to show that its not all about pro-TVR.
If the PTW is NOT based on results, just on data.
Why has Danny been given 40kg series ballast and Mike 20kg, when Mike was faster at Brands?
The wet race is irrelevant, but in the dry, Mike was clearly faster, yet less weight has been added??
Confused dot com!
Statements like "it'll be alright this weekend, trust me" and "the cars are close to their class limits" show a cavalier attitude frankly. I know that Craig worked hard to get the car DOWN to the correct weight after silverstone only to have it loaded back up.
Shame really, it was a promising series...
Just a heads up to play nicely, Andy Dawson coming on here to explain his case is a very commendable thing to do, techincal scruit is always going to be an uncomfortable place to sit.
If we all keep away from cheap insults as emotions are running high we can have a valuable discussion and explanation of the way things work, and maybe even some changes, or at the very least an understanding...
Performance balancing is always a bit of a guess with give and take, and always the spectre of political influence in the background. With so few TVR's of this spec in competition compared to 911/430 etc its always going to lool like they are being targeted.
Please give AD the space to explain in detail if he see's fit.
I'd hate to see the thread locked.
If we all keep away from cheap insults as emotions are running high we can have a valuable discussion and explanation of the way things work, and maybe even some changes, or at the very least an understanding...
Performance balancing is always a bit of a guess with give and take, and always the spectre of political influence in the background. With so few TVR's of this spec in competition compared to 911/430 etc its always going to lool like they are being targeted.
Please give AD the space to explain in detail if he see's fit.
I'd hate to see the thread locked.
I would like to think that the viewing figures for this series have gone up significantly both on track and TV since it became general knowledge that two home-built road-going TVRs were racing. There are certainly a lot of TVR's in the car parks at the last two events I've attended.
I would like to think that the organisers see the value in having a series encompassing more than just the big three corporates running and providing a much more exciting and competitive series as a result.
It seems that all that's being asked for is a level playing field, and complete transparency and consistency in assessing each of the cars to guarantee that they are within the rules and regs.
Not much to ask if you want to be taken seriously Mr GT Cup.
I would like to think that the organisers see the value in having a series encompassing more than just the big three corporates running and providing a much more exciting and competitive series as a result.
It seems that all that's being asked for is a level playing field, and complete transparency and consistency in assessing each of the cars to guarantee that they are within the rules and regs.
Not much to ask if you want to be taken seriously Mr GT Cup.
Becoming a new fan of the GT Cup Im appauled at the way the series is being run, its a shame that new viewers like myself consider this race series almost corrupt in their treatment for the TVRs, Silverstone was an absolute farce.
Out of interest is the KTM Xbow having extra weight added as it looked very quick in the 2nd race at brands?
Out of interest is the KTM Xbow having extra weight added as it looked very quick in the 2nd race at brands?
There is soooo much ste on here its untrue. I race an M3 in the GT Cup in class 3 and I have to say Andys equalization, to me is spot on, he has produced close racing, with pretty much the 3 classes running where they should be. Take a look at the amount of different winners so far, no-one is streaking away with it, and thats the way it should be. I hate carrying ballast (80kg tomoz 
) but I understand the formula.
If Danny and Mike are good enough (and they are) and consistent enough (TVR reliabilty LOL) they will rise to the top. With all the knocking I notice non of the TVR fans mentioned that Mike hampered his own season by chucking it off twice at Brands?
Please try to stop knocking Andy and everything bar the TVRs, the GT cup is producing exactly what their website claims, Close, competive GT racing at its best
Try coming along to watch sometime!
te on here its untrue. I race an M3 in the GT Cup in class 3 and I have to say Andys equalization, to me is spot on, he has produced close racing, with pretty much the 3 classes running where they should be. Take a look at the amount of different winners so far, no-one is streaking away with it, and thats the way it should be. I hate carrying ballast (80kg tomoz ) but I understand the formula.If Danny and Mike are good enough (and they are) and consistent enough (TVR reliabilty LOL) they will rise to the top. With all the knocking I notice non of the TVR fans mentioned that Mike hampered his own season by chucking it off twice at Brands?
Please try to stop knocking Andy and everything bar the TVRs, the GT cup is producing exactly what their website claims, Close, competive GT racing at its best
Try coming along to watch sometime! aaronc said:
Out of interest is the KTM Xbow having extra weight added as it looked very quick in the 2nd race at brands?
Or well driven? You need to be able to pedal in the wet as well as the dry, there was the same grip out there for everyone.Tool.
Type these numbers into your calculator.
267HP/825kg=? - Which class does that make it then?
Also Andy Dawson is sound, doing a solid job - obviously a difficult task trying to find a sensible BOP for some of the older or as such unknown/modified cars - give him a break.
nastywej said:
aaronc said:
Out of interest is the KTM Xbow having extra weight added as it looked very quick in the 2nd race at brands?
Or well driven? You need to be able to pedal in the wet as well as the dry, there was the same grip out there for everyone.I believe if the Sagaris was to be given just a little bit more weight it could run in class B now
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