Renault/RB - McLaren/Ferrari argument
Discussion
I suspected RB would look to bend the rules, they were claiming the new regs wouldn't hurt them too much, I guess they meant because they were going to ignore the the spirit of the rule change in favour of trying to push on with some loophole or other.
Anyone know why Lewis got called to the Stewards after practice 2? BBC doesn't know why and no one could think of a reason why, they might be just getting the required Lewis bashing out of the way early I guess.
Anyone know why Lewis got called to the Stewards after practice 2? BBC doesn't know why and no one could think of a reason why, they might be just getting the required Lewis bashing out of the way early I guess.
P-Jay said:
Anyone know why Lewis got called to the Stewards after practice 2? BBC doesn't know why and no one could think of a reason why, they might be just getting the required Lewis bashing out of the way early I guess.
What with the new facilities and everything, they just wanted to make sure he knew the way...I've read that it comes from the Renault engines having to use 50% off throttle 'cold' blowing. They seem to need it to cool the engine and has been used since the 2009 engine reg change. If they didn't have it they would not finish the race - apparently red bull / Renault asked to enlarge radiators or sidepods to prevent it but were refused.
groomi said:
P-Jay said:
Anyone know why Lewis got called to the Stewards after practice 2? BBC doesn't know why and no one could think of a reason why, they might be just getting the required Lewis bashing out of the way early I guess.
What with the new facilities and everything, they just wanted to make sure he knew the way...E30M3SE said:
Webber and Hamilton were summoned to see the Race Stewards for using DRS during FP1, (guess they should not have been due to it being declared a wet session?) having heard from the drivers and team rep's, no further action to be taken.
Wonder why the system wasn't disabled (stewards have control of it).McLaren really shouldn't complain about Renault/RBR -- nor should any Mercedes-powered team -- because all Merc teams have been allowed a concession to fire half of their cylinders under braking.
The FIA has royally screwed this up. Ban blowing at the end of the season, not in the middle.
The exchange: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/ne...
The FIA has royally screwed this up. Ban blowing at the end of the season, not in the middle.
The exchange: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/ne...
Edited by Jungles on Friday 8th July 22:54
The Benson article above explains whats going on. Its an utter farce so far and is all down to FIA incompetence.
I've got no doubt that whilst its Renault Sport (i.e. the engine supplier) who raised this with the FIA red bull are behind it - they have the most to lose from the ban and they have purposely waited until today to raise the issue so other teams wouldn't have enough time to react/protest/complain.
No-one can verify that 50% throttle cold blown is equivalent to 10% hot blown.
Merc want to hot blow (albeit in with only 4 cylinders) to up crankcase pressure to help with engine braking.
Renault say they need to cold blow to aid cooling.
A further complication is that apparently renault use butterfly throttles, not barrel throttles, so their 50% is more like 68%.
The FIA are deciding what to do overnight, but appear to be way out of their depth. The only sensible solution is to revert the ban and go back to Valencia spec maps and mandate that the throttle position can only be influenced by the pedal, i.e. 0% on overrun for 2012.
I've got no doubt that whilst its Renault Sport (i.e. the engine supplier) who raised this with the FIA red bull are behind it - they have the most to lose from the ban and they have purposely waited until today to raise the issue so other teams wouldn't have enough time to react/protest/complain.
No-one can verify that 50% throttle cold blown is equivalent to 10% hot blown.
Merc want to hot blow (albeit in with only 4 cylinders) to up crankcase pressure to help with engine braking.
Renault say they need to cold blow to aid cooling.
A further complication is that apparently renault use butterfly throttles, not barrel throttles, so their 50% is more like 68%.
The FIA are deciding what to do overnight, but appear to be way out of their depth. The only sensible solution is to revert the ban and go back to Valencia spec maps and mandate that the throttle position can only be influenced by the pedal, i.e. 0% on overrun for 2012.
Crafty_ said:
The Benson article above explains whats going on. Its an utter farce so far and is all down to FIA incompetence.
I've got no doubt that whilst its Renault Sport (i.e. the engine supplier) who raised this with the FIA red bull are behind it - they have the most to lose from the ban and they have purposely waited until today to raise the issue so other teams wouldn't have enough time to react/protest/complain.
No-one can verify that 50% throttle cold blown is equivalent to 10% hot blown.
Merc want to hot blow (albeit in with only 4 cylinders) to up crankcase pressure to help with engine braking.
Renault say they need to cold blow to aid cooling.
A further complication is that apparently renault use butterfly throttles, not barrel throttles, so their 50% is more like 68%.
The FIA are deciding what to do overnight, but appear to be way out of their depth. The only sensible solution is to revert the ban and go back to Valencia spec maps and mandate that the throttle position can only be influenced by the pedal, i.e. 0% on overrun for 2012.
Complete horlicks of a situation.I've got no doubt that whilst its Renault Sport (i.e. the engine supplier) who raised this with the FIA red bull are behind it - they have the most to lose from the ban and they have purposely waited until today to raise the issue so other teams wouldn't have enough time to react/protest/complain.
No-one can verify that 50% throttle cold blown is equivalent to 10% hot blown.
Merc want to hot blow (albeit in with only 4 cylinders) to up crankcase pressure to help with engine braking.
Renault say they need to cold blow to aid cooling.
A further complication is that apparently renault use butterfly throttles, not barrel throttles, so their 50% is more like 68%.
The FIA are deciding what to do overnight, but appear to be way out of their depth. The only sensible solution is to revert the ban and go back to Valencia spec maps and mandate that the throttle position can only be influenced by the pedal, i.e. 0% on overrun for 2012.
The well respected scarbs has put up a post http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/10-rule-f...
Summary: any team can run 50% cold blown OR 10% hot blown.
But it still doesn't alter the fact that the FIA were changing the rules whilst the cars were on track during FP2 and have seemingly pandered to Renault at the last minute.
Summary: any team can run 50% cold blown OR 10% hot blown.
But it still doesn't alter the fact that the FIA were changing the rules whilst the cars were on track during FP2 and have seemingly pandered to Renault at the last minute.
The interesting fact is that Renault were cold blowing before at 45 % throttle... They are limited to 50 % now.... Hmmm
Where as mercedes were hot blowing with more than 10 % throttle and are now limited to 10 %...
So really, red bulls advantage has grown.
Add this to the fact that Renault cold blow for engine cooling, and they were told to run bigger radiators but refused, and it all seems a little unjust.
Where as mercedes were hot blowing with more than 10 % throttle and are now limited to 10 %...
So really, red bulls advantage has grown.
Add this to the fact that Renault cold blow for engine cooling, and they were told to run bigger radiators but refused, and it all seems a little unjust.
Crafty_ said:
But it still doesn't alter the fact that the FIA were changing the rules whilst the cars were on track during FP2 and have seemingly pandered to Renault at the last minute.
Now on the BBC commentary at the start of FP3 they're saying that the FIA have changed their minds again and things are back to the way they were on Thursday... What a mess!HurryUpAndWait said:
Use Psychology said:
The other interesting fact is that there was apparently a very heated discussion in the drivers' briefing and LH was supposedly very vociferous in his criticism.
Do you have a source for this - interested to read about it if possible...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/07/ne...
Andrew Benson said:
As a protest against the new ruling, the Mercedes teams ran in second practice with 50% open throttle during braking. Then, there was an explosive exchange in the drivers' briefing with Whiting, with McLaren's Lewis Hamilton particularly animated on the matter.
And now all the engine manufacturers have been summoned to another meeting with Whiting.
interesting that its back to 10 % whatever the engine is now...i think this is the only fair way to do it.And now all the engine manufacturers have been summoned to another meeting with Whiting.
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