Without Ferrari there is no Formula 1
Discussion
"Formula 1 is still our life, but without Ferrari there is no Formula 1, just as without Formula 1 Ferrari would be different," said di Montezemolo.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95966
I agree with some of the things he says (3rd car, overly-aero-dependent, rules, the testing ban) but I don't agree that without Ferrari there is no F1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95966
I agree with some of the things he says (3rd car, overly-aero-dependent, rules, the testing ban) but I don't agree that without Ferrari there is no F1.
Formula One has become a huge financial circus over the years. To the detriment of the fans and the business.
Look at team orders where teams can determine who wins a race. And the bias and preference shown by the Formula One organisation to certain manufacturers.
This has reduced the honour and quality of the racing. But Bernie has made millions.
Still, as the OP says no single team is bigger than the sport. Well whats left of the sport.
Look at team orders where teams can determine who wins a race. And the bias and preference shown by the Formula One organisation to certain manufacturers.
This has reduced the honour and quality of the racing. But Bernie has made millions.
Still, as the OP says no single team is bigger than the sport. Well whats left of the sport.
It's only Mclaren who come even close to Ferrari in the history, pedigree and importance stakes to F1.
I'd say without both those 2 teams then F1 as we know it would cease. But around the world, how many fans are dressed in red instead of silver (or is it black and white, or red and white?)
Williams might have been on the same pedestal, but they've sold out to pay drivers. Manufacturers like Mercedes, Renault come and go on a marketing wheeze. Lotus sold out years ago. Then there's the drinks companies and the airline billionnaires' toy teams.
I'd say without both those 2 teams then F1 as we know it would cease. But around the world, how many fans are dressed in red instead of silver (or is it black and white, or red and white?)
Williams might have been on the same pedestal, but they've sold out to pay drivers. Manufacturers like Mercedes, Renault come and go on a marketing wheeze. Lotus sold out years ago. Then there's the drinks companies and the airline billionnaires' toy teams.
There is some sense in what LDM is saying. No point in Ferrari sticking their name on a standard chassis if it goes in that direction. The engines are locked down & really not much of an issue or differentiator from a performance or a reliability standpoint any more - so what's left to compete with? Aero is about all.
davepoth said:
And yet everywhere you go around the world, it's a sea of red in every grandstand. Without Ferrari F1 is a lot of beardy men in sheds in the midlands.
So McLaren is a group of beardy men in sheds?The lead to professionalism was made by British teams, Brabham, Williams and McLaren. In many ways Ferrri played catch-up until Brawn took over at Ferrari.
Steffan said:
Formula One has become a huge financial circus over the years. To the detriment of the fans and the business.
Look at team orders where teams can determine who wins a race. And the bias and preference shown by the Formula One organisation to certain manufacturers.
This has reduced the honour and quality of the racing. But Bernie has made millions.
Still, as the OP says no single team is bigger than the sport. Well whats left of the sport.
Team orders have been around for years regardless of if the rules have alowed it or not. Look at team orders where teams can determine who wins a race. And the bias and preference shown by the Formula One organisation to certain manufacturers.
This has reduced the honour and quality of the racing. But Bernie has made millions.
Still, as the OP says no single team is bigger than the sport. Well whats left of the sport.
bakerstreet said:
Team orders have been around for years regardless of if the rules have alowed it or not.
Originally couldn't you take your team mates car if you were no1 and the car went on sick leave! No, team orders are not a problem in F1.Testing restrictions, silly engine regulations, crap new circuits. These are what is wrong with F1. But team tactics are part of what's right.
Edited by Munter on Monday 7th November 09:52
Scuffers said:
Eric Mc said:
They are the only team in Formula 1 who were in extence before Formula 1 commenced (although they didn't start manufacturing their own cars until two years afterwards).
I think that does count for something.
Not sure that's true?I think that does count for something.
Scuderia Ferrari was set up in the late 1920s to run and manage the Alfa Romeo cars after Alfa Romeo reduced their factory support.
The team returned to racing after World War 2 and eventually Enzo Ferrari decided to start building his own cars.
Formula 1 was established as the top flight open wheel racing series following a meeting in Paris in 1946. Ferari started manufacturing their own cars in 1947.
3 car teams are very dangerous... There are already 4 or 5 teams fighting tooth and nail to get into the top ten. Add a few more top cars and thy would have no hope. Add in the fact that they are less competitive competitors than cars from an independent team, because they are subject to team orders, the show suffers even more.
LdM is arguing for more testing because he has a test track on his doorstep and his team is not competitive.
Also, the engine regulations are reopened in a big way from 2013 so f1 will once again be directly road relevant and high tech. Much more relevant than aero development.
His arguments strm entirely from self interest and are easily defeated. He makes the 'we'll leave' threat every few years anyway.
LdM is arguing for more testing because he has a test track on his doorstep and his team is not competitive.
Also, the engine regulations are reopened in a big way from 2013 so f1 will once again be directly road relevant and high tech. Much more relevant than aero development.
His arguments strm entirely from self interest and are easily defeated. He makes the 'we'll leave' threat every few years anyway.
Use Psychology said:
3 car teams are very dangerous... There are already 4 or 5 teams fighting tooth and nail to get into the top ten. Add a few more top cars and thy would have no hope. Add in the fact that they are less competitive competitors than cars from an independent team, because they are subject to team orders, the show suffers even more.
LdM is arguing for more testing because he has a test track on his doorstep and his team is not competitive.
Also, the engine regulations are reopened in a big way from 2013 so f1 will once again be directly road relevant and high tech. Much more relevant than aero development.
His arguments strm entirely from self interest and are easily defeated. He makes the 'we'll leave' threat every few years anyway.
this is pretty much spot on, i think the testing for new drivers is a good point though (expanding on what he said) they will use it to improve the current performance but at least it would allow us/them to gauge drivers. Because we as fans (the recent 'worst driver ever in F1' backs this up to some extent) put the drivers on some sort of mystic platform that decent drivers such as Chandhok, Senna and Alguersuari (spelling?) wont get too unless we give them a chance. In the case of jaime we coul have missed out on what is clearly a decent talent!LdM is arguing for more testing because he has a test track on his doorstep and his team is not competitive.
Also, the engine regulations are reopened in a big way from 2013 so f1 will once again be directly road relevant and high tech. Much more relevant than aero development.
His arguments strm entirely from self interest and are easily defeated. He makes the 'we'll leave' threat every few years anyway.
it Also shouldnt go without notice that MOST of the new talent coming through the ranks at the moment is either red bull or renault backed. They will soon have a monopoly on new talent that Ferrari, Mclaren and merc will be powerless to stop.
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