Discussion
The provisional regulations and dates are released for the Britcar MSA British Endurance Championship and the Britcar Production Cup Championship for 2012.
Follow the links below to download them:
Britcar MSA British Endurance Championship: PROVISIONAL DATES; PROVISIONAL REGULATIONS
Britcar Production Cup Championship: PROVISIONAL DATES; PROVISIONAL REGULATIONS
Follow the links below to download them:
Britcar MSA British Endurance Championship: PROVISIONAL DATES; PROVISIONAL REGULATIONS
Britcar Production Cup Championship: PROVISIONAL DATES; PROVISIONAL REGULATIONS
David. Just an idol thought. Are we ever likely to see the 24hr moved to a warmer part of the year?
I reckon it would be a much bigger event just because of the time of year alone.
It's been great to see it grow steadily over the last few years but I think it could be something extra special, extra big and packed with spectators if it was at the right time of year.
(Great to see it scheduled for Oulton Park, by the way)
I reckon it would be a much bigger event just because of the time of year alone.
It's been great to see it grow steadily over the last few years but I think it could be something extra special, extra big and packed with spectators if it was at the right time of year.
(Great to see it scheduled for Oulton Park, by the way)
lazyitus said:
David. Just an idol thought. Are we ever likely to see the 24hr moved to a warmer part of the year?
I reckon it would be a much bigger event just because of the time of year alone.
It was bloddy warm this year thats for sure I reckon it would be a much bigger event just because of the time of year alone.
I think it would be great if it started earlier maybe 12 o clock but i know there can be lots of reasons why it does not
Markgt3 said:
It was bloddy warm this year thats for sure
I think it would be great if it started earlier maybe 12 o clock but i know there can be lots of reasons why it does not
Granted. But that was by fluke more than anything.I think it would be great if it started earlier maybe 12 o clock but i know there can be lots of reasons why it does not
I'd just love to see it in a more central part of the year where it would make camping more attractive for the masses. I guess I just enjoy Le Mans too much and want an additional event like that to look forward to.
But I understand there must be reasons why it's at the time of year it is.
When the issue was raised in the past some of the reasons quoted, which are very valid are to do with the amount of prep before the race which is required on the cars and then afterwards, and trying to persuade people to participate in the 24hour when they could be in the mid season of Britcar/ GT Cup /AN other championship, can be quite difficult.
There are other reasons as well to do with availability of circuit and how it clashes with other events in the summer.
There are other reasons as well to do with availability of circuit and how it clashes with other events in the summer.
One of the main reasons for not holding the race in the mid summer is that apart from the fact we'd get guaranteed rain in mid summer (!) there will be more of a noise issue. By holding the race later in the year the locals are less likely to sleep with their windows open hence less likely to be effected by noise. We certainly felt the issues created by the warm weather this year.
Apart from that the reasons mentioned above were all also valid. Too early in the summer and it will clash with other long distance races around Europe and it would disrupt our own championship calendar too much, also its more likely to clash with family holidays for teams and drivers.
Also the calendar at Silverstone has alot of 'noisy' events in the summer months and although we don't make much noise it is seen as noisy due to the 24hr nature of the event. Silverstone are not able to run too many noisy events in a small period so they must spread them out to satisfy their local restrictions. And as we've just seen with our date being taken by the Superbikes yesterday we are quite low on the food chain at Silverstone so we don't get the pick of the better dates.
Apart from that the reasons mentioned above were all also valid. Too early in the summer and it will clash with other long distance races around Europe and it would disrupt our own championship calendar too much, also its more likely to clash with family holidays for teams and drivers.
Also the calendar at Silverstone has alot of 'noisy' events in the summer months and although we don't make much noise it is seen as noisy due to the 24hr nature of the event. Silverstone are not able to run too many noisy events in a small period so they must spread them out to satisfy their local restrictions. And as we've just seen with our date being taken by the Superbikes yesterday we are quite low on the food chain at Silverstone so we don't get the pick of the better dates.
1.6.1.4 The overall team championship will be for Registered Championship entrants cars, irrespective of drivers throughout
the year and it will be calculated on an accumulation of all class points throughout the 2012 season.
1.6.1.5 The class team championship will be for Registered Championship entrants cars, irrespective of drivers throughout
the year and it will be calculated on an accumulation of their best 6 class results throughout the 2012 season.
Hi David,
Just a clarification if you would, James indicated when having a chat with me at Brands over the last weekend that the 2012 Championship would be decided on 6 rounds, but having read the above, that does not seem to be the case !!! Would I be right in thinking that as with this last season, 2012 will be run in the same way, i.e. if you are after the championship as opposed to the class win, then you really need to do all eight races.
the year and it will be calculated on an accumulation of all class points throughout the 2012 season.
1.6.1.5 The class team championship will be for Registered Championship entrants cars, irrespective of drivers throughout
the year and it will be calculated on an accumulation of their best 6 class results throughout the 2012 season.
Hi David,
Just a clarification if you would, James indicated when having a chat with me at Brands over the last weekend that the 2012 Championship would be decided on 6 rounds, but having read the above, that does not seem to be the case !!! Would I be right in thinking that as with this last season, 2012 will be run in the same way, i.e. if you are after the championship as opposed to the class win, then you really need to do all eight races.
Britcar David said:
Depends on what people want to do. That's the plan with getting regs out this early so we can get feedback and see what the general consensus of opinion is.
What would the grid prefer?
Tricky question, if you go for just six races for the 2012 championship then you may not get the grids on all the planned rounds for the only incentive would be the ability to drop one or two bad scoring rounds if indeed that's the system adopted. If you stick with what we have then it's up to the team/drivers to do as many rounds that they can fund, those with the funds are fine but those with limited resources could be denied an opportunity of winning simply because money was tight. We only did 6 rounds this season for that very reason, if we had competed in all the rounds, we would have come 2nd overall (assuming a similar/average score rate) and probably first in class 3 as we could have dropped a lessor score and made up the 1 point difference that we missed it by.What would the grid prefer?
Having said that, motorsport, like life, is not always fair or an even playing field when it comes to the money side of things, some will always be capable of funding their racing better then others. If one tries to make it totally free of the power of the investments made then we might as well go the whole hog and just run standard road cars of identical spec and set costs
From Britcar's point of view, although every effort is made to keep as level a playing field as possible, you may get lower grids once the maximum points are achieved and as a result, lower fee income that in turn puts jobs and indeed the series at risk.
In short, I don't know the answer to your question without giving the matter a lot more thought, I'm sure there is an equitable solution that works for all, but the overriding important factor must be ability for Britcar to be financially capable of supporting the series via the various sources of income available to it, race fee/entry fees being well up there in ensuring consistency. If I wanted to race in a series that was as even as possible through restrictions set on budget, car types and performance etc, or so it may appear, albeit in something of socialist manner, then the Fun Cup comes to mind, and immediately disappears, for it does not appeal to me as it may do to others.
Good luck with this one, and whatever is decided, we'll be back in 2012 subject to budgets as always, as It is where we want to race and where the people we wish to race with are likely to be
We would prefer not to have any dropped rounds. All rounds count towards the Championship. Also to score within a round I would like to see a more than 60% of the race completed to gain points. This puts more focus on reliability and not just wheeling the car onto the grid to score points
AlvinTaff said:
We would prefer not to have any dropped rounds. All rounds count towards the Championship. Also to score within a round I would like to see a more than 60% of the race completed to gain points. This puts more focus on reliability and not just wheeling the car onto the grid to score points
Don't disagree with your approach, it's fair based on the principal of knowing in advance how many rounds there are in the championship, one decides to enter/commit or not. If the budget won't cover the rounds intended, I guess that's why we have an invitation class(s).Also agree with the 60% aspect, if not higher, for it is endurance racing and reliability is a major factor in the car you race and the effort one puts into how it's prepared, those that sacrifice outright speed for durability should be considered.
Agree entirely, its no secret that I found this years rules of awarding points for starting an endurance race fundamentally not in the spirit of the purpose of endurance racing.
Everyone I mentioned it to also thought it was inherently wrong, however I understand that Britcar had their reasons. I agree that 60% should be a minimum and that going back to 40% as per last year is OK but not ideal as it doesn't meet the purpose of endurance racing in the first place.
Purely from my point of view as a customer ( and a potential Britcar 2012 customer) I am looking for a championship which encourages you to think about strategy, work hard to stay out of trouble and push on as far into the race as possible. If Britcar rewards points for starting or even at 40% race distance, then it isn't really setting an objective of going endurance racing.
I appreciate that we would have lost out this year at Snetterton, but I would have been prepared to accept it as part and parcel of the event i'd chosen to participate in.
I also agree that the overall Championship should be all rounds and in the classes you can do 6 of 8. This will encourage people to try where possible to participate in all of the rounds and surely that can only be a good thing for Britcar.
David, can you please clarify the theory behind the 5 point rule for first and last race?
Thanks
O
Everyone I mentioned it to also thought it was inherently wrong, however I understand that Britcar had their reasons. I agree that 60% should be a minimum and that going back to 40% as per last year is OK but not ideal as it doesn't meet the purpose of endurance racing in the first place.
Purely from my point of view as a customer ( and a potential Britcar 2012 customer) I am looking for a championship which encourages you to think about strategy, work hard to stay out of trouble and push on as far into the race as possible. If Britcar rewards points for starting or even at 40% race distance, then it isn't really setting an objective of going endurance racing.
I appreciate that we would have lost out this year at Snetterton, but I would have been prepared to accept it as part and parcel of the event i'd chosen to participate in.
I also agree that the overall Championship should be all rounds and in the classes you can do 6 of 8. This will encourage people to try where possible to participate in all of the rounds and surely that can only be a good thing for Britcar.
David, can you please clarify the theory behind the 5 point rule for first and last race?
Thanks
O
I wll be new to Britcar this year, but I think one dropped score for both overall and class wins would be fair, that way if someone who is challenging for the title has an unforseen problem, either car or family for example, it doesnt wreck their title chances.
I did GT Cup this year and scored well in all races, bringing my car home even with a variety of problems when others didnt and DNFed but I was no better off points wise due to their THREE dropped scores rule. Too much IMO
I did GT Cup this year and scored well in all races, bringing my car home even with a variety of problems when others didnt and DNFed but I was no better off points wise due to their THREE dropped scores rule. Too much IMO
There does seem to be a discrepancy between the provisional regs and the e mail correspondence sent out on the number of rounds counting for the Overall Championship. 1.6.1.4 & 1.6.1.5 of the Regs clearly suggests 8 rounds for Overall Championship & 6 for Class honours whilst the correspondence currently suggests just 6 rounds for Overall Championship.
From Britcar's point of view, I could fully understand the need to have all 8 rounds count but equally in this difficult economic environment for competitors to commit to that at this stage is quite a financial undertaking!
Maybe a half-way house (as proposed on here) of best 7 rounds for the Overall Championship would be a good compromise, that way Teams can decide their own approach subject to budget but aren't too heavily penalised for just one DNF.
From Britcar's point of view, I could fully understand the need to have all 8 rounds count but equally in this difficult economic environment for competitors to commit to that at this stage is quite a financial undertaking!
Maybe a half-way house (as proposed on here) of best 7 rounds for the Overall Championship would be a good compromise, that way Teams can decide their own approach subject to budget but aren't too heavily penalised for just one DNF.
micron750 said:
FFS yet another fantasic championship deserts Combe could someone explain why considering the comments about being back in 2012 nosie wasnt a factor??
I was disappointed to see Combe missing from the 2012 calender too, especially as it was our best race this year! Having asked why we're not going back next season I get the feeling that there are a number of factors conspiring against it but that one of the major concerns is that of the practical issues at CC. With no pit garages and the potential for large grid sizes it makes the driver change/ re-fuelling in the pit lane somewhat difficult as there is not a lot of space.
On the bright side - great to see Oulton Park on the calender, despite being a bloody long way to go for us it's a fantastic circuit
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