Here we go again
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Dunit

Original Poster:

645 posts

234 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
I see that the FIA have given the all clear to the active ride front suspension that Lotus used at the young driver test!

mattikake

5,110 posts

228 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
Where did you read that?

If active ride is allowed then they should return to full ground effect again (IIRC originally banned due to safety concerns when a ground effect seal is broken during pitch/roll/bumps/using kerbs etc., right?)... and decent racing again!

Mini1275

11,098 posts

211 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96952

Lotus's rivals look set to be forced to copy its innovative reactive ride height system ahead of the 2012 season, with the FIA happy the concept is totally legal.

There has been much intrigue in recent days about the mechanism that Lotus was reported to have tried out at the Abu Dhabi young driver test last year.

The mechanical system helps maintain a standard ride height during braking - when often the front of the car would dip down.

Rivals teams are understood to have looked into the system and its legality over recent days - with a report in Gazzetta dello Sport this week suggesting it was driver adjusted by the use of a pedal in the cockpit.

However, if the drivers were changing the ride height of the cars under braking then that would be a breach of the rules.

Article 3.15 of the F1 Technical Regulations states: "With the exception of the parts necessary for the adjustment described in Article 3.18 [the DRS], any car system, device or procedure which uses driver movement as a means of altering the aerodynamic characteristics of the car is prohibited."

AUTOSPORT can reveal, however, that the adjustment to the ride height - which improves aerodynamic performance and stability on the Lotus under braking - does not come from the driver.

Instead it is reactive to brake torque and is linked directly to the suspension - so cannot be classified as a moveable aerodynamic device in the way that independent mass dampers were.

The fact that the driver is not involved, and that the system is a part of the suspension, means it complies fully with the F1 regulations.

AUTOSPORT understands that Lotus has been in liaison with the FIA throughout the development of the brake system, having first been proposed in 2010 and been given an official green light by the governing as long ago as January last year.

With the FIA happy that the brake system is legal, it means that its main rivals will now have to propose their own systems to the governing body if they want to adopt such a concept for the forthcoming season.

AUTOSPORT also understands that at least one front-running team has already submitted plans for a similar ride-height adjustment device to be used in 2012.


dome

688 posts

286 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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Mm, wonder if i can flog HRT an anti dive kit off a Mk2 Escort scratchchin

marshalla

15,902 posts

230 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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I could find myself warming to this rebadged Renault team at last - they seem to have channelled some of Chunky's creativity in interpreting the rules.

revrange

1,182 posts

213 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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Key thing will be how easy is it to copy and not just that but make work. Sounds like something the other teams would soon have copied and working well on their cars. Bet Lotus are a bit upset its leaked out if it does exist.

Reardy Mister

13,758 posts

251 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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Oooh, some actual useful innovation in F1. Excellent for Lotus, hopefully its not easy to replicate and everyone else hasnt also got one up their sleeve. How long before its banned?

davepoth

29,395 posts

228 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
Reardy Mister said:
Oooh, some actual useful innovation in F1. Excellent for Lotus, hopefully its not easy to replicate and everyone else hasnt also got one up their sleeve. How long before its banned?
Complaint from Ferrari in 3...2...1...

Mini1275

11,098 posts

211 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
davepoth said:
Reardy Mister said:
Oooh, some actual useful innovation in F1. Excellent for Lotus, hopefully its not easy to replicate and everyone else hasnt also got one up their sleeve. How long before its banned?
Complaint from Ferrari in 3...2...1...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96948

hehe

Reardy Mister

13,758 posts

251 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
Mini1275 said:
davepoth said:
Reardy Mister said:
Oooh, some actual useful innovation in F1. Excellent for Lotus, hopefully its not easy to replicate and everyone else hasnt also got one up their sleeve. How long before its banned?
Complaint from Ferrari in 3...2...1...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96948

hehe
Fixed that.

westtra

1,542 posts

230 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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will it be copyable? as I thought it was patented.

zac510

5,546 posts

235 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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It's possible that how we think this works isn't how it works and that's why the FIA has approved it.

andygo

7,391 posts

284 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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dome said:
Mm, wonder if i can flog HRT an anti dive kit off a Mk2 Escort scratchchin
hahaha, like it. Or a sumpguard maybe?

westtra

1,542 posts

230 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
zac510 said:
It's possible that how we think this works isn't how it works and that's why the FIA has approved it.
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/lotus-renault-gp-fluid-inerter/

give a pretty good explanation

skwdenyer

18,707 posts

269 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
zac510 said:
It's possible that how we think this works isn't how it works and that's why the FIA has approved it.
The obvious thing to do would be to pop a couple of actuaries somewhere amidst the front suspension and cole them to the brake hydraulics. However, since that would cause a change in attitude in response to an input, it would undoubtedly constitute a movable aerodynamic device.

Reports talk of the system being 'reactive' and responding to brake torque. So.. One can for instance imagine a system in which the damper rods were clamped by a mechanism which in turn was actuated by a torque generated by the braking front wheel acting on the wishbone mounts. But that would just (partially or fully) lock up the front end under braking, which might be a tad tricky of the braking zone is bumpy....

Perhaps they've found a way to mount a pendulum controlling a valve in the dampers, such that, under braking, the valving is altered in order to stiffen the front end (which won't reduce steady state dive, but will delay it until the braking zone has ended)? Or perhaps something altogether different?

westtra

1,542 posts

230 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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zac510

5,546 posts

235 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
westtra said:
That's not the same thing.

zac510

5,546 posts

235 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
quotequote all
skwdenyer said:
The obvious thing to do would be to pop a couple of actuaries somewhere amidst the front suspension and cole them to the brake hydraulics. However, since that would cause a change in attitude in response to an input, it would undoubtedly constitute a movable aerodynamic device.

Reports talk of the system being 'reactive' and responding to brake torque. So.. One can for instance imagine a system in which the damper rods were clamped by a mechanism which in turn was actuated by a torque generated by the braking front wheel acting on the wishbone mounts. But that would just (partially or fully) lock up the front end under braking, which might be a tad tricky of the braking zone is bumpy....

Perhaps they've found a way to mount a pendulum controlling a valve in the dampers, such that, under braking, the valving is altered in order to stiffen the front end (which won't reduce steady state dive, but will delay it until the braking zone has ended)? Or perhaps something altogether different?
Yes exactly, a lot of the non-technical press implies that the only way to do something during braking is to link it to the brake pedal (hydraulically, mechanically, etc).

But if something occurs merely during braking then that's a secondary effect to the driver pressing the brake pedal.

Of course you could connect any aerodynamic behaviour of the car to the driver if you really wanted to. It simply wouldn't move without him!

Teppic

8,071 posts

286 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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Reardy Mister said:
How long before its banned?
When McLaren start using it.

Sam the Mut

774 posts

205 months

Wednesday 11th January 2012
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Teppic said:
Reardy Mister said:
How long before its banned?
When McLaren start using it.
When McLaren start winning with it.