TVR "Tuscan" Challenge - oh and a few MGs!
Discussion
I've just been reviewing the 2012 declared TVR driver thread on this forum and realised that the only TVRs racing this year that are not Tuscans or Invitation Class cars are my and Dave Stewart's Griffiths (+ Tim Broughton in Dan's former Griffith?) in Class B and whoever is in the sold cars of Dave Chant + Ivor Watson's and Wayne Godwin's Tasmins (both sold?) in Class C.
Whereas I can appreciate the attraction for keen drivers to be out in Class A or B Tuscans, I believe that DTEC will be diluted this year by the lack of road converted TVR racers, with Class C in particular struggling to reach a 3 car start. I also suspect it will provide less of an attraction to the TVR owning spectators, with so few ex-road cars out - no KG Tuscan or T350s and Jason Clegg's Tuscan unlikely to appear early in the season.
The flip side is that there should be far more Tuscan racers out this year to produce a strong front end of the pack.
Whereas I can appreciate the attraction for keen drivers to be out in Class A or B Tuscans, I believe that DTEC will be diluted this year by the lack of road converted TVR racers, with Class C in particular struggling to reach a 3 car start. I also suspect it will provide less of an attraction to the TVR owning spectators, with so few ex-road cars out - no KG Tuscan or T350s and Jason Clegg's Tuscan unlikely to appear early in the season.
The flip side is that there should be far more Tuscan racers out this year to produce a strong front end of the pack.
TVRSH said:
(+ Tim Broughton in Dan's former Griffith?)
Not sure where you got your info from. I will not be racing in any Griffith or my Tasmin. There is no class for my ex road converted turbo car as it is completely uncompetetive against Tuscan challenge cars. In any other form of motorsport my 2 ltr turbo would not be expected to compete with a normally aspirated engine greater than 3.4 ltr and yet I am no longer prepared to waste my time and money against very highly tuned RV8s of 5 ltr and maybe more.However, unlike Dave I think this is a very relevent thread but I doubt that you will have many other contributors as apart from your named racers there aren't any more Bs left that haven't already quit.
Toymota ex 33
toymota33 said:
Not sure where you got your info from. I will not be racing in any Griffith or my Tasmin. There is no class for my ex road converted turbo car as it is completely uncompetetive against Tuscan challenge cars. In any other form of motorsport my 2 ltr turbo would not be expected to compete with a normally aspirated engine greater than 3.4 ltr and yet I am no longer prepared to waste my time and money against very highly tuned RV8s of 5 ltr and maybe more.
However, unlike Dave I think this is a very relevent thread but I doubt that you will have many other contributors as apart from your named racers there aren't any more Bs left that haven't already quit.
Toymota ex 33
But Tim, you have already stated, in a previous thread, that you could turn your boost up to about 500hp. Your car seems to handle well, so why quit? I, for one, will miss you in the paddock.However, unlike Dave I think this is a very relevent thread but I doubt that you will have many other contributors as apart from your named racers there aren't any more Bs left that haven't already quit.
Toymota ex 33
toymota33 said:
Graham said:
where you running tim, I'll have to see if ncan carch a race..
G
Not given it much thought G as work makes a full season in any series impossible now but probably Matlock and the Via Gellia on a Sunday afternoon with a nice road legal V8.G
Best Rgds,
Tim.
NTEL said:
The lack of converted road cars is probably due the the cost of building them. Threads like this don't really help, sorry.
The cost is high because the rules are written so that to be competitive you have to have a tuscan race car, or car of equivalent pace. That costs a lot of money. The answer is simple : re-write the rules so they don't favour tuscan race cars, and make sure the rules are enforced!! That hasn't happened from what I have seen. This thread is very relevant.spitfire4v8 said:
The cost is high because the rules are written so that to be competitive you have to have a tuscan race car, or car of equivalent pace. That costs a lot of money. The answer is simple : re-write the rules so they don't favour tuscan race cars, and make sure the rules are enforced!! That hasn't happened from what I have seen. This thread is very relevant.
jules some of the drivers were all for letting cee jay and me race in class B with 4.5ajp motors but unfortunately this did not happen as other trophy/championship hunters blocked it. Hi Tim and apologies - I guess it was "wishful thinking" that you would join us this year in a TVR and swell the numbers of non Tuscan or MG cars on the start line.
I certainly did not intend to be unhelpful or contentious, merely to point out that, after minimal analysis, it appears we are drifting back to a Tuscan, not a TVR Challenge this year.
If I had known 3 years ago what I know now, I might have bought a RV8 Tuscan, except for the fact that they are not as aesthetically pleasing a body shape as the Griffith IMHO!
I certainly did not intend to be unhelpful or contentious, merely to point out that, after minimal analysis, it appears we are drifting back to a Tuscan, not a TVR Challenge this year.
If I had known 3 years ago what I know now, I might have bought a RV8 Tuscan, except for the fact that they are not as aesthetically pleasing a body shape as the Griffith IMHO!
Well there HAS to be something wrong if a guy with 2 GpB cars isn't bringing out either?
Making a road car competitive with a Race car is always going to be hard and is NEVER the easy option, but if you don't peg back the race cars...its going to be VERY expensive. Trust me, I know.
Its why challenge cars are banned in so many series...they're just too fast.
Even with the same PTW, the race car will always win.
A
Making a road car competitive with a Race car is always going to be hard and is NEVER the easy option, but if you don't peg back the race cars...its going to be VERY expensive. Trust me, I know.
Its why challenge cars are banned in so many series...they're just too fast.
Even with the same PTW, the race car will always win.
A
TVRSH said:
Hi Tim and apologies - I guess it was "wishful thinking" that you would join us this year in a TVR and swell the numbers of non Tuscan or MG cars on the start line.
I certainly did not intend to be unhelpful or contentious, merely to point out that, after minimal analysis, it appears we are drifting back to a Tuscan, not a TVR Challenge this year.
If I had known 3 years ago what I know now, I might have bought a RV8 Tuscan, except for the fact that they are not as aesthetically pleasing a body shape as the Griffith IMHO!
No apologies required Richard and certainly no offence taken. I don't want a Tuscan Challenge car either, with whatever engine but I no longer see a suitable class for an ex road Tasmin with a 2 ltr turbo in it. I only do it for a bit of fun, which is handy given past reliability issues but it's no fun going round and round on my own as last years B class Tuscans were lapping with similar times to the class As. I certainly did not intend to be unhelpful or contentious, merely to point out that, after minimal analysis, it appears we are drifting back to a Tuscan, not a TVR Challenge this year.
If I had known 3 years ago what I know now, I might have bought a RV8 Tuscan, except for the fact that they are not as aesthetically pleasing a body shape as the Griffith IMHO!
Without loggers in all B cars and checks made at every meeting I don't see the point. Even then, as some of us will remember from the TVRCC, more often than not there were murmerings and rumblings from within both classes as to the apparent inequality of some cars.
Best Rgds,
Tim.
As it seems group B is the problem why don't the people with converted road cars have a chat with Reidy, directly, to discuss the possibility of having an additional class located somewhere between C and B. Surely it's worth one of you discussing it with him instead of bringing it up on here all the time.
grumpy bear said:
kg55 said:
jules some of the drivers were all for letting cee jay and me race in class B with 4.5ajp motors but unfortunately this did not happen as other trophy/championship hunters blocked it.
Sorry Kev, But that simply is not true and is very misleading.
kg55 said:
fair enough mal not to worry i have been missinformed
yeah all the drivers I spoke to were more than happy, to change the rules ref ajp road cars on p/wwith such a wide variety of cars your never going to be able to group them fairly in 3 classes. trouble is there just aint enough cars in total to split the classes any more. if you did it would be like some other seriesninran cars in last year. 1 car in each class!!!!
Ive tried hard not to comment, but i must say I was very disapointed with the decisions for this year. Ive nothing against mg's in fact ill be running some this but its just another sports car series now. imho it would have been better to concentrante on keeping the tvrs together. and the championship reg should be spent on policing the p/w.
it can be done with the right commitment.
Ph certainly isnt the best place to have this discussion but it proved to be a waste of everyone's time doing it anywhere else.right back in my box now
Edited by Graham on Monday 19th March 19:32
Guillotine said:
Well there HAS to be something wrong if a guy with 2 GpB cars isn't bringing out either?
Making a road car competitive with a Race car is always going to be hard and is NEVER the easy option, but if you don't peg back the race cars...its going to be VERY expensive. Trust me, I know.
Its why challenge cars are banned in so many series...they're just too fast.
Even with the same PTW, the race car will always win.
A
I'm really looking forward to watching the group B boys this year, be even better if the road car racers could join the fun, it really did look like the class to be in, hope you guys can sort it out,Making a road car competitive with a Race car is always going to be hard and is NEVER the easy option, but if you don't peg back the race cars...its going to be VERY expensive. Trust me, I know.
Its why challenge cars are banned in so many series...they're just too fast.
Even with the same PTW, the race car will always win.
A
COME ON CHANTY
I have great respect for Graham's views as I do for all those who have been around DTEC far longer than I have, but I have the following comments:
1. The PH forum is fine to discuss anything related to DTEC providing it is not slanderous, too personal or a truly "need to know" exclusive nature. The drivers' forum does not give the reader the ability to follow the thread of a discussion because it is in individual E-mail format. However this PH forum does need a moderator, either JR, or someone authorised by him to both assimilate what is said and to "lay down the law" when necessary, as currently most discussions exist in a relative vacuum.
2. It is obvious that some DTEC drivers have been alienated by the current and proposed 2012 supplementary rules. 2012 should run as is currently proposed, but there should be scope to improve 2013 by creating an additional class(sorry Graham)for non-Tuscan RV8 road converted cars. As most argument centres around PTW, I would suggest that Class A be left open as is currently proposed, B1 would be for RV8 Tuscans + AJP and Speed 6 engined converted road cars up to 325 or 350bhp(?) and B2 for RV8 roadcars and AJP and Speed6 engined cars up to 300bhp (the old Class B limit as most of us understood it to be). Yes there is a policing issue, but I understand that this is already an aspiration for 2013.
3. Class C, effectively an entry, but still important level for TVR racers is difficult because it relies almost exclusively on previously converted Tasmins - most M Series and earlier TVRs have gone to other historic race series by now. I suppose that if it cannot attract more than 3 cars a year routinely, then it should fold.
There I have said my piece and shall likewise climb back in my box now!
1. The PH forum is fine to discuss anything related to DTEC providing it is not slanderous, too personal or a truly "need to know" exclusive nature. The drivers' forum does not give the reader the ability to follow the thread of a discussion because it is in individual E-mail format. However this PH forum does need a moderator, either JR, or someone authorised by him to both assimilate what is said and to "lay down the law" when necessary, as currently most discussions exist in a relative vacuum.
2. It is obvious that some DTEC drivers have been alienated by the current and proposed 2012 supplementary rules. 2012 should run as is currently proposed, but there should be scope to improve 2013 by creating an additional class(sorry Graham)for non-Tuscan RV8 road converted cars. As most argument centres around PTW, I would suggest that Class A be left open as is currently proposed, B1 would be for RV8 Tuscans + AJP and Speed 6 engined converted road cars up to 325 or 350bhp(?) and B2 for RV8 roadcars and AJP and Speed6 engined cars up to 300bhp (the old Class B limit as most of us understood it to be). Yes there is a policing issue, but I understand that this is already an aspiration for 2013.
3. Class C, effectively an entry, but still important level for TVR racers is difficult because it relies almost exclusively on previously converted Tasmins - most M Series and earlier TVRs have gone to other historic race series by now. I suppose that if it cannot attract more than 3 cars a year routinely, then it should fold.
There I have said my piece and shall likewise climb back in my box now!
As a newcomer to the series its always interesting reading the forum threads,
Surely all we want is to race with other TVRS not MGS, i would have thought it would have been better to get committed numbers for the series early on in the year ,and have a floating class for the cars that dont fit into A B or C class ....... the meeting you had in Jan i never even heard about...maybe not reading the threads carefully enough
Surely all we want is to race with other TVRS not MGS, i would have thought it would have been better to get committed numbers for the series early on in the year ,and have a floating class for the cars that dont fit into A B or C class ....... the meeting you had in Jan i never even heard about...maybe not reading the threads carefully enough
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