Are Caterhams safe, with only a rollover bar?
Discussion
I note that other threads about the death of Sandra Harrison-Moore have been taken down, so I hope I'm not offensive in posting this.
Today's Motoring section of the Daily Telegraph has an article by their regular contributor Erin Baker, writing about about this tragedy in the light of her own experience, in a Caterham on the same track. It shows a picture of Mrs.Harrison-Moore in her Caterham, and one of Ms.Baker in hers. The obvious difference is that the first has only a rear rollover bar, while the second has a full rollcage.
This reminds me of Drawing 60(ii) in section K - Safety of the MSA's Blue Book, which says that the drivers helmet must not project through a line between the rear rollover and a "substantial structure forward of the driver". I also recall that every race Caterham I have ever seen has the full roll cage.
Should the MSA insist that ultra-light cars, such as the Caterham, have a full roll cage for all forms of motorsport?
John
Today's Motoring section of the Daily Telegraph has an article by their regular contributor Erin Baker, writing about about this tragedy in the light of her own experience, in a Caterham on the same track. It shows a picture of Mrs.Harrison-Moore in her Caterham, and one of Ms.Baker in hers. The obvious difference is that the first has only a rear rollover bar, while the second has a full rollcage.
This reminds me of Drawing 60(ii) in section K - Safety of the MSA's Blue Book, which says that the drivers helmet must not project through a line between the rear rollover and a "substantial structure forward of the driver". I also recall that every race Caterham I have ever seen has the full roll cage.
Should the MSA insist that ultra-light cars, such as the Caterham, have a full roll cage for all forms of motorsport?
John
Personally I wouldn't be without my roll cage and side impact bar and I think that full enclosure roll cages should be mandatory for all open vehicles used competition. This would upset far too many people though, especially vintage car drivers and people who use their competition cars for road use.
I have witnessed a number of incidents in the club I race in which could've been very serious indeed were the cars not fitted with cages. A cage does not just protect in the case of an inversion, it also protects from side impacts with taller objects and from the front should the car wedge itself into a bank or barrier. It also protects from larger airborne objects, like the Henri Surtees/Felipe Massa scenario.
I have witnessed a number of incidents in the club I race in which could've been very serious indeed were the cars not fitted with cages. A cage does not just protect in the case of an inversion, it also protects from side impacts with taller objects and from the front should the car wedge itself into a bank or barrier. It also protects from larger airborne objects, like the Henri Surtees/Felipe Massa scenario.
I'd say no. is it safer to race with a full cage probably, is is safer to have a roof again probably, is it safer to race in a much bigger car with the driver placed centrally in a crash structure again almost certainly.
Many caterhams are used on the road as well, is a full cage safe to use on the road without a full harness and a helmet, probably not as your more likely to hit the cage than anything else. so a rear hoop is probably safer on the road..
Everyone in motorsport knows there are risks, and takes a considered view. cars with only rear hoops are safer than road cars without, and race cars with a full cage are safer than with only a hoop but there is a choice and you take the one that suits you...
Personally I dont fancy racing a caterham cage or no cage, and I'll stick to my Tuscan but many people do so they should be able to choose.
carterhams with only a rear hoop are not unsafe, and it will normally be enough to protect you, in some circumstances a cage will be better so leave things as they are..
Many caterhams are used on the road as well, is a full cage safe to use on the road without a full harness and a helmet, probably not as your more likely to hit the cage than anything else. so a rear hoop is probably safer on the road..
Everyone in motorsport knows there are risks, and takes a considered view. cars with only rear hoops are safer than road cars without, and race cars with a full cage are safer than with only a hoop but there is a choice and you take the one that suits you...
Personally I dont fancy racing a caterham cage or no cage, and I'll stick to my Tuscan but many people do so they should be able to choose.
carterhams with only a rear hoop are not unsafe, and it will normally be enough to protect you, in some circumstances a cage will be better so leave things as they are..
Graham said:
Many caterhams are used on the road as well, is a full cage safe to use on the road without a full harness and a helmet, probably not as your more likely to hit the cage than anything else. so a rear hoop is probably safer on the road..
This is a good point, and it's one of the reasons that I'm no longer comfortable using my caged caterham for road use. I have to have my six point harnesses as tight as I have them for racing to try to prevent my head from reaching the cage. I wear a helmet too. I wouldn't want to drive a caged car with 'comfortably' fitted harnesses or inertia reels. Its only my opinion but I would never drive a caterham on the track without a full cage and necessary safety gear and fwiw thats been my view for a number of years. Numerous friends of mine would not be in one piece if we didn't. I have no details of the accident in question or whether the cage would of made a difference.
Each year at the Caterham awards dinner they show old tv coverage of racing where they just had the single roll over bar behind the driver and cars going over and you just wince. Too much risk for me to consider that a safe pastime for sure. I should probably man up agreed.
Each year at the Caterham awards dinner they show old tv coverage of racing where they just had the single roll over bar behind the driver and cars going over and you just wince. Too much risk for me to consider that a safe pastime for sure. I should probably man up agreed.
Graham said:
Many caterhams are used on the road as well, is a full cage safe to use on the road without a full harness and a helmet, probably not as your more likely to hit the cage than anything else. so a rear hoop is probably safer on the road..
Everyone in motorsport knows there are risks, and takes a considered view.
Quite a simple one really.Everyone in motorsport knows there are risks, and takes a considered view.
For me as someone who will most likely have one at some point in life and certainly track it I doubt I would have a full cage fitted but would certainly be after the FIA bar.
If I were ever to consider competing in one with other cars on the track it is a forgone conclusion that I would want it to have a full cage.
Pure speculation but I can only assume the cause of death was a blunt head trauma - and the roll cage or lack of it had no relation to this tragic death.
However, and Hans device may of prevented serious injury. I've certainly advised the guy I'm coaching in the academy to get one. ( I did at the beginning of the season as well).
Caterhams are very safe cars to race. I've seen some mighty big shunts and thankfully very few injuries. The apparent danger is that they are open wheel race cars and just like a single seater, the main chance of a big accident is through wheel to wheel contact and being launched off another car.
However, and Hans device may of prevented serious injury. I've certainly advised the guy I'm coaching in the academy to get one. ( I did at the beginning of the season as well).
Caterhams are very safe cars to race. I've seen some mighty big shunts and thankfully very few injuries. The apparent danger is that they are open wheel race cars and just like a single seater, the main chance of a big accident is through wheel to wheel contact and being launched off another car.
I was in the class behind the Caterhams today at HCA&AC Debden and one thing that was obvious queing to run is just how many of these have roll hoops which leave the helmet well above the critical support line from front wheel - that's basic stuff and should in my view be a fail at scrutineering .....particularly as one turned over today - thankfully with no issues apart from bent metal.
It's having a wider impact than Caterhams though.
In tin tops with bolt-in cages, following a crash in a Mini last year, the bolted joints are being seen as potential pivot or hinge points where a big enough impact will cause the whole structure to collapse or fold. After the recent Caterham death the MSA have got very sensitive and my old man's car was almost failed by the scrutineers despite being passed in other recent events.
He's been advised that this might mean a new roll-cage -which he can't really afford, so another grassroots motorsports enthusiast on a tight budget could be lost to the sport, at a time where numbers of entrants seems to be dwindling.
The MSA in their wisdom published the guidance after the blue book was published and never sent the updated guidance to drivers. -Leading to a nationwide position where amateur drivers on a shoestring are driving 100's of miles with a car on a trailer to events only to be told that their car is no longer legal to compete. It's a mess.
In tin tops with bolt-in cages, following a crash in a Mini last year, the bolted joints are being seen as potential pivot or hinge points where a big enough impact will cause the whole structure to collapse or fold. After the recent Caterham death the MSA have got very sensitive and my old man's car was almost failed by the scrutineers despite being passed in other recent events.
He's been advised that this might mean a new roll-cage -which he can't really afford, so another grassroots motorsports enthusiast on a tight budget could be lost to the sport, at a time where numbers of entrants seems to be dwindling.
The MSA in their wisdom published the guidance after the blue book was published and never sent the updated guidance to drivers. -Leading to a nationwide position where amateur drivers on a shoestring are driving 100's of miles with a car on a trailer to events only to be told that their car is no longer legal to compete. It's a mess.
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