Will Red Bull ever be classed as one of the greats?

[megy]

With all the talk last night of Red Bull being only the 4th team ever to win 3 constructors championships in a row it got me thinking about who they share this mantle with, McLaren, Williams and Ferrari.

We all know that the 3 older teams are steeped with mountains of history and have attracted great drivers and they each have such a great record since their formation into the championship.

I am not trying to detract from what Red Bull have done, far from it, so please dont let this get into a bh fight on team A is better than team B because of X, Y and Z. Instead, do you think that the current Red Bull team will ever be viewed as one of the all time greats, especially with them doing it on their very first championship win.

Thoughts please......

[Life Saab Itch]

Due to Red Bull being about.in the age of the internet/internet argument, no. not for some time to come.

Adrian Newey is already viewed as being on the same level as Jano, Chapman, Murray and Forgheiri.

[Agoogy]

I think it'll take longer still, due mainly to the fact that are seen primarily as a foul tasting energy drink, then as a sponsor and fundraiser for anything bonkers, and lastly as the unlikely builder of F1 cars....
The 1st 2 are so strong in their own right that the 3rd is diluted for me....

[joewilliams]

It depends if they stick around as Red Bull Racing, or if they get bored and sell the team when the results stop coming.

There is clearly some truly great engineering going on, but their image is of a mobile billboard.

[HustleRussell]

Where is the 'already is' option? I doubt anyone who was watching F1 in 2010/2011/2012 is likely to forget them...

[geeks]

If only for their recent achievements then no, if they continue in this fashion for another decade or so then yes!

[disco1]

I would say they're already in the greats category. 3 back to back WDC/WCC wins, clean pair of heels over everyone else, great strategy calls, amazingly quick, design innovation, great management team..etc..etc

People who discredit them as 'just a drinks company' or 'It's only because of Newey' are just bitter, if it was Mc or Fezza doing the same they'd be raving about them as the greatest team ever. Well done Horner for bringing it all together. He's the pick of the principals by a country mile.

D1 (Mc fan)

[Agoogy]

disco1 said:

I would say they're already in the greats category. 3 back to back WDC/WCC wins, clean pair of heels over everyone else, great strategy calls, amazingly quick, design innovation, great management team..etc..etc

People who discredit them as 'just a drinks company' or 'It's only because of Newey' are just bitter, if it was Mc or Fezza doing the same they'd be raving about them as the greatest team ever. Well done Horner for bringing it all together. He's the pick of the principals by a country mile.

D1 (Mc fan)

that's all true, but the 'brand' is so strong, it sort of fades in it's significance.... I guess when it comes to it...
You see Alonso doing well and it supports it's range of scalpel sharp road cars
You see Hamilton win and wonder what it would be like to drive an MP12-4C
You see Maldanado do ok and ermm..... you'd err... wouldn't mind a go in an old Clio with gold wheels
When Webber or Vettel win, it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth

Would you want to own a road going car called a 'redbull'?

actually now I've said that...maybe they should buy Gumpert and do just that...

[LaurasOtherHalf]

regarding newey, i did wonder last night if he has achieved all he ever wants to with red bull?

would he take up the red car job if it was ever offered?

he has spoken about it recently, saying that for anyone in motorsport it holds strong attraction.

he's obviously not happy at the moment with the renault situation. three WCC's on the bounce. nothing left to prove? he obviously holds some emmotional attachment to the team from the leyton house days but will it keep him there & if it doesn't what will red bull be about then?

[geeks]

Agoogy said:

that's all true, but the 'brand' is so strong, it sort of fades in it's significance.... I guess when it comes to it...
You see Alonso doing well and it supports it's range of scalpel sharp road cars
You see Hamilton win and wonder what it would be like to drive an MP12-4C
You see Maldanado do ok and ermm..... you'd err... wouldn't mind a go in an old Clio with gold wheels
When Webber or Vettel win, it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth

Would you want to own a road going car called a 'redbull'?

actually now I've said that...maybe they should buy Gumpert and do just that...

Aren't Red Bull heavily involved in Infinity? (not that, that is really a good thing...)

[Monty Zoomer]

Who cares about the horrible drinks?

Marlboro and JPS must be much worse.

As a Formula 1 team, Red Bull are already one of the greats , the name on the car is of no relevance whatsoever.

[Nick1point9]

People need to remove the rose tinted specs, Williams/Mansell won in 1992 with a car that was considerably further ahead of the pack than RBR have ever been. Similar story when McLaren won 15 of 16 races in a season. RBR are not inferior to the achievements of Ferrari/McLaren/Williams, especially since the pack is so tight these days.

Any who says "it's only because of Newey" should remember that Newey didn't win any thing from 1999 to 2009 inclusive, so whilst he is clearly brilliant, he doesn't have the Midas Touch; it still takes a lot of hard work and time, with the correct structure and people.

Well done Red Bull, especially considering that they haven't had the fastest car all year, but have the led the constructors almost throughout. They have 2 drivers in a brilliant car and go out there and get the results almost all the time.

[disco1]

Monty Zoomer said:

the name on the car is of no relevance whatsoever.

This

They're a British racing team from MK who've produced the best at pretty much everything. Good on em' I say, besides, it was getting boring just having the annual McLaren/fezza ding dong.

[Forbes82]

Hard to say for such a young team, how can you compare them to teams who have been around for decades and still win? Give it ten years and then maybe we can say.

I honestly think it depends on if they can win when Newey eventually moves on, if they stop or struggle when he goes then thier greatness will be put down to him, if they can remain a top team without him then yes i think they could well be seen as one of the great teams.

[EDLT]

Only once they are old and/or dead. Then we will remember what a great era it was, not like this modern rubbish with so much technology the cars practically drive themselves.

[Al W]

Monty Zoomer said:

Who cares about the horrible drinks?

Marlboro and JPS must be much worse.

As a Formula 1 team, Red Bull are already one of the greats , the name on the car is of no relevance whatsoever.

RBR have blurred the distinction between sponsor and team. When I read your post, I immediately thought McLaren and Lotus as that's where the history lies for me. Where's the DNA behind Red Bull once the branding is stripped away - Stewart GP?

For the similar reasons, the current "Lotus" cars in black & gold have nothing to do with Lotus racing history IMO.

Having said that, RBR have undoubtedly achieved amazing things in a short time but it feels like something transient and not a team to support long-term. I hope I'm wrong

[MrKipling43]

EDLT said:

Only once they are old and/or dead. Then we will remember what a great era it was, not like this modern rubbish with so much technology the cars practically drive themselves.

Irony? Or are you just talking bullocks?

And no, they're definitely not 'one of the greats' yet. To be a great you have to be consistently at the top for a very long time, taking titles over a long period. Ferrari titles span nearly 40 years, Williams 20 and McLaren 25 years, even Enstone's span a decade.

All Red Bull are in at the moment are a purple patch. They've got to be around for at least another decade for them to classed as a great.

The name on the car has nothing to do with it. But you have to have heritage to be classed as a great, and that's something that takes more than six year to build. Still pisses me off that they're listed as 'Austrian' by the way. They've about as Austrian as Germany.

[Derek Smith]

Gaz. said:

Frank, Luca & Ron will never one Monday decide they can't be arsed anymore and withdraw from the sport at the end of the season, Frank & Patrick have held on as long as they have so they can be replaced and the team can carry on.

From 84 to 98 Williams/Head and Dennis owned F1. They swopped championships, only missing one year when they did not have launch control and stability control, because it was illegal. Montzem was working for FIAT or sailing. He's the new kid on the block. He ran Ferrari for a couple of years then handed it over to Todt. Some say Todt was sacked, others suggest he resigigned much to the disappointment of Ferrari but they gave him a lovely car as a going away gift. Monte came back to full control and then set up FOTA to get all the team owners in the same room and then got a helicopter to machine gun them all, apart from his favourites.

I might be mistaking that for a film, but in essence it was identical.

So he's not on my list of the great owners, at least not alongside the greats of Frank, Patrick and Ron.

[DanielSan]

I'd say they're one of the greats already. Such success in a short space of time proves that and it seems unlikely that it'll change much anytime soon. Regardless of what you think of the 'brand' they are the party team of the front runners, whether they win or lose the music is played loud in the garages, but at the same time they work hard to do better, even if they have a 1-2 and lapped everyone else Horner and Newey would still have something they'd want to improve.

[markcoznottz]

What actually is the point of the torro rosso team?. It looks like its parent team but is slower??. Surely it being rooted in the midfield means it devalues RBR?. I bet most casual F1 viewers can't tell them apart. It would've been good to see monster, or even coke/ Pepsi sponser a team, anything for a change.