Optimum racing engine.
Discussion
I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use? What would the displacements get up to before weight started to outweigh the usable power?
Presumably forced induction. Other tricks such as water sprays, anti-lag so turbos are always on boost??
They would also be allowed bigger, slick tyres...
It would be fascinating to know what technology which is outlawed currently would make it onto the ultimately quick (but presumably very dangerous) F1 machines.
Presumably forced induction. Other tricks such as water sprays, anti-lag so turbos are always on boost??
They would also be allowed bigger, slick tyres...
It would be fascinating to know what technology which is outlawed currently would make it onto the ultimately quick (but presumably very dangerous) F1 machines.
Adrian Newey is arguably the best designer/engineer in the F1 pits.
Here's his idea of the "ultimate" racing machine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010
Here's his idea of the "ultimate" racing machine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010
I'd guess that if left unchecked since the 60's aside from the safety aspect then the driver would have been the greatest limiting factor for quite some time now. Rather than there beig a question of a competitor making a mistake it would probably be blacking out while cornering or similar! If speeds were that highly you can only imagine what would happen when it all comes unstuck!
The question is paradoxical though. If there were no rules how could they know what to develop to beat others? Therefore I think they would make a W24 with 8 turbos and 2 superchargers, and hope that it's enough 
But seriously, I don't think they would choose a forced induction engine given the choice. Maybe they would go for a flat configuration to lower CoG? But that makes for a wider engine, which widens the body and will begin to hinder the aerodynamic options.
My vote would be a 22000 RPM V12 like the good old days. But camless with full electronic control of the inlet and exhaust valve timing with variable valve lift.
ETA: Forgot about fuel. Surely they would choose diesel?
But seriously, I don't think they would choose a forced induction engine given the choice. Maybe they would go for a flat configuration to lower CoG? But that makes for a wider engine, which widens the body and will begin to hinder the aerodynamic options.
My vote would be a 22000 RPM V12 like the good old days. But camless with full electronic control of the inlet and exhaust valve timing with variable valve lift.
ETA: Forgot about fuel. Surely they would choose diesel?
Edited by RenOHH on Sunday 14th April 21:33
Any form of reciprocating engine including a wankel would be outclassed by a correctly installed gas turbine engine. Much more reliable and fuel efficient, an engine approx 2ft in diameter and a little under 4ft in length can generate in excess of 2,000shp!
Air could also be bled from the compressor stages to activate an underbody diffusser or used as boundry layer control on any wings as well. Side pods for radiators wouldn't be needed either making the car a bit cleaner aerodynamically.
Air could also be bled from the compressor stages to activate an underbody diffusser or used as boundry layer control on any wings as well. Side pods for radiators wouldn't be needed either making the car a bit cleaner aerodynamically.
Tango13 said:
Any form of reciprocating engine including a wankel would be outclassed by a correctly installed gas turbine engine. Much more reliable and fuel efficient, an engine approx 2ft in diameter and a little under 4ft in length can generate in excess of 2,000shp!
Air could also be bled from the compressor stages to activate an underbody diffusser or used as boundry layer control on any wings as well. Side pods for radiators wouldn't be needed either making the car a bit cleaner aerodynamically.
Can you get decent throttle response from a gas turbine now? When they had been used previously then the drivers hated then as you had to guess how much throttle you needed in a seconds time rather than being able to adjust the car's balance on the throttle and get an instant reaction.Air could also be bled from the compressor stages to activate an underbody diffusser or used as boundry layer control on any wings as well. Side pods for radiators wouldn't be needed either making the car a bit cleaner aerodynamically.
Given that you could get 1400hp out of a 1.5 litre turbo 25 years ago then a small 1.5 to 2 litre turbo seems reasonable as a future ultimate engine.
It would be in line or a 90 degree V dependant on packaging needs. Flat engines create a higher CoG than wide Vs as you have to get either induction or exhaust gubbins under the cylinder head which lifts the whole crank case (and CoG) on a flat engine.
Edited by JPBailey on Sunday 14th April 23:21
JPBailey said:
Can you get decent throttle response from a gas turbine now? When they had been used previously then the drivers hated then as you had to guess how much throttle you needed in a seconds time rather than being able to adjust the car's balance on the throttle and get an instant reaction.
Given that you could get 1400hp out of a 1.5 litre turbo 25 years ago then a small 1.5 to 2 litre turbo seems reasonable as a future ultimate engine.
It would be in line or a 90 degree V dependant on packaging needs. Flat engines create a higher CoG than wide Vs as you have to get either induction or exhaust gubbins under the cylinder head which lifts the whole crank case (and CoG) on a flat engine.
As others have posted, use the turbine as an electrical generator or use the turbine to power one large hydraulic pump to drive individual hydraulic pumps on each wheel. Either method would allow the turbine to run at a constant speed saving wear and fuel. Given that you could get 1400hp out of a 1.5 litre turbo 25 years ago then a small 1.5 to 2 litre turbo seems reasonable as a future ultimate engine.
It would be in line or a 90 degree V dependant on packaging needs. Flat engines create a higher CoG than wide Vs as you have to get either induction or exhaust gubbins under the cylinder head which lifts the whole crank case (and CoG) on a flat engine.
Edited by JPBailey on Sunday 14th April 23:21
The 1.5 litre turbo engines could generate 1400bhp but only for three laps, the out lap, the hot lap and the in lap, they raced at about 900-1000bhp.
They also used some very exotic and expensively blended fuels while a turbine will use parafin.
The 1.5 litre turbo engines would be little more than junk after 70 odd laps while the turbine will go for 3,500hrs between overhauls, around 100,000 racing laps!
Tango13 said:
JPBailey said:
Can you get decent throttle response from a gas turbine now? When they had been used previously then the drivers hated then as you had to guess how much throttle you needed in a seconds time rather than being able to adjust the car's balance on the throttle and get an instant reaction.
Given that you could get 1400hp out of a 1.5 litre turbo 25 years ago then a small 1.5 to 2 litre turbo seems reasonable as a future ultimate engine.
It would be in line or a 90 degree V dependant on packaging needs. Flat engines create a higher CoG than wide Vs as you have to get either induction or exhaust gubbins under the cylinder head which lifts the whole crank case (and CoG) on a flat engine.
As others have posted, use the turbine as an electrical generator or use the turbine to power one large hydraulic pump to drive individual hydraulic pumps on each wheel. Either method would allow the turbine to run at a constant speed saving wear and fuel. Given that you could get 1400hp out of a 1.5 litre turbo 25 years ago then a small 1.5 to 2 litre turbo seems reasonable as a future ultimate engine.
It would be in line or a 90 degree V dependant on packaging needs. Flat engines create a higher CoG than wide Vs as you have to get either induction or exhaust gubbins under the cylinder head which lifts the whole crank case (and CoG) on a flat engine.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 14th April 23:21
The 1.5 litre turbo engines could generate 1400bhp but only for three laps, the out lap, the hot lap and the in lap, they raced at about 900-1000bhp.
They also used some very exotic and expensively blended fuels while a turbine will use parafin.
The 1.5 litre turbo engines would be little more than junk after 70 odd laps while the turbine will go for 3,500hrs between overhauls, around 100,000 racing laps!
"I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use?"
Do you guys hope to work for Mclaren?
REALIST123 said:
The original question:
"I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use?"
Do you guys hope to work for Mclaren?
You can run a turbine on petrol and the combustion would still be taking place inside an engine "I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use?"
Do you guys hope to work for Mclaren?
Tango13 said:
REALIST123 said:
The original question:
"I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use?"
Do you guys hope to work for Mclaren?
You can run a turbine on petrol and the combustion would still be taking place inside an engine "I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use?"
Do you guys hope to work for Mclaren?
REALIST123 said:
Tango13 said:
REALIST123 said:
The original question:
"I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use?"
Do you guys hope to work for Mclaren?
You can run a turbine on petrol and the combustion would still be taking place inside an engine "I was wondering earlier if F1 had no regulation on engines except they needed to be petrol internal combustion engines which lasted a couple of races- what would the teams use?"
Do you guys hope to work for Mclaren?
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff