Alonso planning on move?
Discussion
Alonso wishing he had another car, his agent allegedly visiting Red Bull over the weekend and Luca not in the best mood, airing a bit of laundry.
Alonso to Red Bull? Lewis over to Ferrari?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23495111
Alonso to Red Bull? Lewis over to Ferrari?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23495111
Fact is, he's been with the historically most prominent F1 team for four seasons now and has yet to deliver. No doubt his employers have been asking questions behind closed doors for at least a year now. One or two of those behind closed doors exchanges see the light of day.
It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
MGJohn said:
Fact is, he's been with the historically most prominent F1 team for four seasons now and has yet to deliver. No doubt his employers have been asking questions behind closed doors for at least a year now. One or two of those behind closed doors exchanges see the light of day.
It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
The fact is that the team cannot deliver with the current management. Alonso has dragged results out of of what has been a very poor car, years behind its contemporaries for nearly a decade now. He isn't broken, Ferrari is. Just look at the mess they were in from '79 through to '96...you'd think they would have learnt something from that.It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
Gaz. said:
MGJohn said:
Fact is, he's been with the historically most prominent F1 team for four seasons now and has yet to deliver. No doubt his employers have been asking questions behind closed doors for at least a year now. One or two of those behind closed doors exchanges see the light of day.
It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
Your trolling & baiting is getting very tiresome John. It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
After Lewis leaving Mclaren,Alonso jumping ship would not suprise me atall. These guys want to win and Alonso more than any other driver seems the most ruthless in trying to get his own way. He has the money and the fame, he needs to win at least another one WDC and if he cant see it happening at Ferrari then why not move.
Ferraris problem is who do they bring in to replace him.
kup that cost Ferrari that championship. At the time Alonso played the team game. Raikkonen could be a good replacement for Alonso....He's usually faster than massa, and certainly seems motivated in the first few corners - often makes up places so seems like he is trying. if the car isn't fast enough then limited to what he can do. Would be interesting if he did go to another team with an "equal" number one drive after McLaren drive a few years ago.
Is it the Car or Alonso?
I think most respected people actually involved with the Sport think Alonso is probably the best driver out there, he's got raw speed when needed, and a very, very wise head for strategy and he's giving everything he's got to flatter the car.
The Ferrari just isn't good enough, it makes a brilliant driver like Massa look like a chump (he's very under valued at the moment IMHO) in fact it's caused a few crashes for him they're being very coy about.
They're in that horrible position where their wind tunnel and simulator isn't representing real world performance hence why they're busy recruiting engineers and designers from other teams and not looking to sign the latest hotshot drivers.
I think most respected people actually involved with the Sport think Alonso is probably the best driver out there, he's got raw speed when needed, and a very, very wise head for strategy and he's giving everything he's got to flatter the car.
The Ferrari just isn't good enough, it makes a brilliant driver like Massa look like a chump (he's very under valued at the moment IMHO) in fact it's caused a few crashes for him they're being very coy about.
They're in that horrible position where their wind tunnel and simulator isn't representing real world performance hence why they're busy recruiting engineers and designers from other teams and not looking to sign the latest hotshot drivers.
The Ferrari slow was good enough to win twice earlier on in the year. Mercedes have stopped up, as has Lotus.
Alonso should've won the WDC in 2010. He also had a very good chance in 2012 in a car that by the end was certainly fast enough to be at the front (in fact Massa out performed him in the latter races, and was pretty much holding station dutifully behind him when he could clearly go faster) - this along with basically a rear gunner who will not be allowed to finish ahead of him. Blaming Ferrari entirely is just as false as saying Vettel only wins because of Newey.
Alonso should've won the WDC in 2010. He also had a very good chance in 2012 in a car that by the end was certainly fast enough to be at the front (in fact Massa out performed him in the latter races, and was pretty much holding station dutifully behind him when he could clearly go faster) - this along with basically a rear gunner who will not be allowed to finish ahead of him. Blaming Ferrari entirely is just as false as saying Vettel only wins because of Newey.
Gaz. said:
They are using two wind tunnels, their own & Toyota's. They can't both be wrong. Toyota lease theirs out to anyone who can pay for it and I haven't heard of anyone else mentioning a lack of correlation between the tunnel and real life.
It hasn't done Audi any harm over the years!vonuber said:
The Ferrari slow was good enough to win twice earlier on in the year. Mercedes have stopped up, as has Lotus.
Alonso should've won the WDC in 2010. He also had a very good chance in 2012 in a car that by the end was certainly fast enough to be at the front (in fact Massa out performed him in the latter races, and was pretty much holding station dutifully behind him when he could clearly go faster) - this along with basically a rear gunner who will not be allowed to finish ahead of him. Blaming Ferrari entirely is just as false as saying Vettel only wins because of Newey.
Why sign Allison then? If the Ferrari is that good, surely you'd look to change the driver...maybe by criticising him in public to force him to slog his hook...oh hang on a mo.....Alonso should've won the WDC in 2010. He also had a very good chance in 2012 in a car that by the end was certainly fast enough to be at the front (in fact Massa out performed him in the latter races, and was pretty much holding station dutifully behind him when he could clearly go faster) - this along with basically a rear gunner who will not be allowed to finish ahead of him. Blaming Ferrari entirely is just as false as saying Vettel only wins because of Newey.
Gaz. said:
MGJohn said:
Fact is, he's been with the historically most prominent F1 team for four seasons now and has yet to deliver. No doubt his employers have been asking questions behind closed doors for at least a year now. One or two of those behind closed doors exchanges see the light of day.
It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
Your trolling & baiting is getting very tiresome John. It's not all about the car.
All very interesting. I'm watching that space with keen interest ...
I have an opinion! Tiresome or not, just telling it like I see it.
The geezer is workmanlike, nothing exceptional and over rated. Very flawed and I'm convinced he thinks he's better than the teams he drives for ~ yes, I alone in the known Universe think along those lines and nothing you say or I have seen will make me change my stance on that.
He's poison in my books.
By the way, no less an authority than Seb Vettel has his number too. Witness his respect for Alonso as a driver and respect for Raikkonen both in and out of the car.
He's no mug is Vettel. In and out of the car!
rubystone said:
Why sign Allison then? If the Ferrari is that good, surely you'd look to change the driver...maybe by criticising him in public to force him to slog his hook...oh hang on a mo.....
Hahahah ... Sling HIS hook indeed. You rascal !
No doubt any Alonso contract to date is sewn up very tightly in Alonso's favour. That will now be a thing of the past!Edited by MGJohn on Tuesday 30th July 13:59
Alonso is the most technically gifted driver out there. He has continually modified his style to suit the changing demands of the cars. Over a single lap, Hamilton and Vettel are the fastest, but ask any team principal out there and they'd all break the bank to get their hands on Alonso. But he is clearly of a Latin temperament and that brings its own problems.
I wouldn't ever call him workmanlike though.i don't think John is a troll though; all the contributors on these threads clearly base their opinions on knowledge of the sport...none seem to be trolls to me.
I wouldn't ever call him workmanlike though.i don't think John is a troll though; all the contributors on these threads clearly base their opinions on knowledge of the sport...none seem to be trolls to me.
doogz said:
MGJohn said:
The geezer is workmanlike, nothing exceptional and over rated. Very flawed and I'm convinced he thinks he's better than the teams he drives for ~ yes, I alone in the known Universe think along those lines and nothing you say or I have seen will make me change my stance on that.
He's poison in my books.
He's poison in my books.
If you're not trolling, you're even dimmer than you first appear.
So there is an open seat driving a car that has been on top of the last three years. For whatever reasons you haven't had the equipment to do the job over that time.
Frankly, if my management were not in there asking questions about the seat I'd sack them! I suspect that management for pretty much every driver have been in for a chat/dinner etc. Its their job.
I think Alonso is very good in the car in that he can adapt and drag the best out of a car. To be honest I don't know about how well he works with the team - we don't really get many insights.
Ball is in RB's court, they have plenty of drivers to pick from. Do they really need to spend megabucks on a top line driver? could they not just stick an average guy in the car and save themselves a chunk of cash and still get good enough results for a WCC ? Who will be most compliant ? not just when racing but in terms of PR jobs and the like ? Infiniti could have a role to play here - they might want a personality from an area (or at least popular in the area) where they want to grow sales for example.
Are there new sponsors to attract with a particular driver signing ?
It will not be just about skill when strapped in to the car.
Frankly, if my management were not in there asking questions about the seat I'd sack them! I suspect that management for pretty much every driver have been in for a chat/dinner etc. Its their job.
I think Alonso is very good in the car in that he can adapt and drag the best out of a car. To be honest I don't know about how well he works with the team - we don't really get many insights.
Ball is in RB's court, they have plenty of drivers to pick from. Do they really need to spend megabucks on a top line driver? could they not just stick an average guy in the car and save themselves a chunk of cash and still get good enough results for a WCC ? Who will be most compliant ? not just when racing but in terms of PR jobs and the like ? Infiniti could have a role to play here - they might want a personality from an area (or at least popular in the area) where they want to grow sales for example.
Are there new sponsors to attract with a particular driver signing ?
It will not be just about skill when strapped in to the car.
Alonso is a great driver but I can't help but feel he is over hyped and therefore over rated. Yes he is a fantastic competitor and generally maximises what he can from the car on race day (especially at the start), but he doesn't have the same 1 lap pace as a Hamilton or Vettel, he isn't a great team player and like Vettel, he is always been teamed up with inferior team mates (Massa is a shadow of the driver he once was since about 2009/10).
I also think the 'out performing the dog of a Ferrari' is a bit overdone, there were significant periods of last year where the Ferrari was actually the better car and besides which other drivers do not receive the same praise for doing similar. For example, Raikkonen last year and and at the back end of 2009 massively outperformed the car and no one batted an eyelid, infact in 08/09 Ferrari politics pretty much sabotaged him before binning him off in favor of supposedly superior Alonso - Ironic considering Kimi is now the last driver to win them a championship.
Alonso is now past him prime and I think he needs to be careful - throw too many toys out the pram and they may just fire him and hire some younger/cheaper talent.
Finally, as much as people dislike Vettel and feel he hasn't had a competitive team mate (which is true) I suspect he would narrowly beat Alonso if they were in the same team. It would be great to watch though.
I also think the 'out performing the dog of a Ferrari' is a bit overdone, there were significant periods of last year where the Ferrari was actually the better car and besides which other drivers do not receive the same praise for doing similar. For example, Raikkonen last year and and at the back end of 2009 massively outperformed the car and no one batted an eyelid, infact in 08/09 Ferrari politics pretty much sabotaged him before binning him off in favor of supposedly superior Alonso - Ironic considering Kimi is now the last driver to win them a championship.
Alonso is now past him prime and I think he needs to be careful - throw too many toys out the pram and they may just fire him and hire some younger/cheaper talent.
Finally, as much as people dislike Vettel and feel he hasn't had a competitive team mate (which is true) I suspect he would narrowly beat Alonso if they were in the same team. It would be great to watch though.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Tuesday 30th July 18:52
VolvoT5 said:
Alonso is a great driver but I can't help but feel he is over hyped and therefore over rated. Yes he is a fantastic competitor and generally maximises what he can from the car on race day (especially at the start), but he doesn't have the same 1 lap pace as a Hamilton or Vettel, he isn't a great team player and like Vettel, he is always been teamed up with inferior team mates (Massa is a shadow of the driver he once was since about 2009/10).
I also think the 'out performing the dog of a Ferrari' is a bit overdone, there were significant periods of last year where the Ferrari was actually the better car and besides which other drivers do not receive the same praise for doing similar. For example, Raikkonen last year and and at the back end of 2009 massively outperformed the car and no one batted an eyelid, infact in 08/09 Ferrari politics pretty much sabotaged him before binning him off in favor of supposedly superior Alonso - Ironic considering Kimi is now the last driver to win them a championship.
Alonso is now past him prime and I think he needs to be careful - throw too many toys out the pram and they may just fire him and hire some younger/cheaper talent.
Finally, as much as people dislike Vettel and feel he hasn't had a competitive team mate (which is true) I suspect he would narrowly beat Alonso if they were in the same team. It would be great to watch though.
Thanks for the post. Some interesting points. I also think the 'out performing the dog of a Ferrari' is a bit overdone, there were significant periods of last year where the Ferrari was actually the better car and besides which other drivers do not receive the same praise for doing similar. For example, Raikkonen last year and and at the back end of 2009 massively outperformed the car and no one batted an eyelid, infact in 08/09 Ferrari politics pretty much sabotaged him before binning him off in favor of supposedly superior Alonso - Ironic considering Kimi is now the last driver to win them a championship.
Alonso is now past him prime and I think he needs to be careful - throw too many toys out the pram and they may just fire him and hire some younger/cheaper talent.
Finally, as much as people dislike Vettel and feel he hasn't had a competitive team mate (which is true) I suspect he would narrowly beat Alonso if they were in the same team. It would be great to watch though.
I too can't help but wonder if this 'dog of a Ferrari' that is oft quoted is really true. The person to watch, I think, is Massa. He appears to me to have never got the edge back after his horrific accident. Yet as pointed out, the times he has at least matched Alonso's performance are far from unknown. That said, part of the reason might be the emotional response from dropping form a contender to one who puts on a good show. Hungary was a case in point. After his good start (in part due to excellent software?). He could have gone faster but, in the end, got the best result he was likely to obtain. Not something to inspire him I suppose.
As ever, F1 racing is a team event and the team is not performing.
I'd love to see Alonso alongside Vettel, the only real way of comparing drivers, although that means, of course, that sprog Hamilton was better than experienced Alonso. Such a paring would probably be enough to see the old, more combatant Alonso throughout the race.
What team managers want is not necessarily the same as being the best racing driver. They would, no doubt, be very supportive of Alonso's performance on Sunday, and for good reason, but I'd prefer LH and probably Grosjean in 'my' team. But then I would not pick the latter for my fantasy F1 team.
Vettel and LH can put in fabulous qually laps. That pushes them up a notch for me. LH is happy to wreck his tyres rather than drop back. That's another notch. LH has shown, many times, that he is willing to take unreasonable, and eventually unproductive, risks for just a one place advantage. There another. He was frustrated with having to drive slowly to keep his tyres in condition. And another.
Alonso might well be able to help the team's designers improve the car but I can't help thinking that the ability to do someone else's job doesn't really do it for me.
I like drivers that excite, that pull me to the edge of my seat. Alonso can to this, and occasionally does, but he seems to be driving to orders. If Ferrari are unhappy with his performance perhaps they should mention to Massa that team orders are lifted for a few races and then see how their #1 performs.
Alonso, Vettel: who is best? Only prejudice can come to a conclusion. I'd love to see them paired. It'd be fun to say the least.
RobGT81 said:
Gaz. said:
They are using two wind tunnels, their own & Toyota's. They can't both be wrong. Toyota lease theirs out to anyone who can pay for it and I haven't heard of anyone else mentioning a lack of correlation between the tunnel and real life.
It hasn't done Audi any harm over the years!Ferrari can only use one wind tunnel at a time, the amount of use is limited in the rules.
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