The Ultimate Race Track Design?

[Tony2or4]

The following idle thought just flitted noiselessly across my consciousness:

Imagine designing a sequence of race tracks, all with the same outer perimeter, and each one based on the racing line of its predecessor.

What I mean is this: say you drew a really accurate map of an existing race track, like Silverstone. Let's call it Circuit1 and let's refer to the curve which constitutes the outer perimeter as Loop1.

Now draw the racing line onto the map: this of course gives you a new curve, which we'll call Loop2.

Now measure the outer perimeter of the original circuit (ie Loop1), and scale up Loop2 so that it has exactly the same length as Loop1.

Next, draw a new curve inside Loop2, at a constant distance from it, like railway tracks. Call it Loop3.

Loop2 and Loop3 together define a new racing circuit. We'll call it Circuit2, and it has the same outer perimeter as Circuit1.

OK so far? Right, now repeat the whole shebang with Circuit2, to produce another new circuit, say Circuit3.

Then do it again, giving Circuit4. Then Circuit5, Circuit6, etc etc.



Where would this process end?? After a few dozen iterations, would we eventually end up with some sort of ideal race track?

[sc0tt]

I have no idea what you are saying

[98elise]

You would end up with a circle.

[leafspring]

ETA ^^^ what he said

I think I sort of follow it...
basically take the racing line at Silverstone, scale it up and turn it into a race track...
then take the racing line of that new track, scale it up and turn that into a race track...
then take the racing line from that track (X) infinity

To what end though?

[ILoveMondeo]

[Wattsie]

98elise said:

You would end up with a circle.

I think this - each racing line smoothes the curve of a corner, until the point at which the curves of every corner come around to meet again.

You may also end up with a figure-8 depending on left/right turns.

[Tony2or4]

sc0tt said:

I have no idea what you are saying

OK, let me rephrase it:

leafspring said:

basically take the racing line at Silverstone, scale it up and turn it into a race track...
then take the racing line of that new track, scale it up and turn that into a race track...
then take the racing line from that track (X) infinity

I couldn't have put it better myself. And indeed I didn't.

leafspring said:

To what end though?

For the purely academic interest of wondering what you'd end up with. What put it in my mind was this: given that the racing line at Silverstone is a different shape from the track itself, why not just redesign the track so that it matches the racing line, then everybody would be happy?....but no, they wouldn't be, would they? They'd just go and do a different racing line.

[Tony2or4]

98elise said:

You would end up with a circle.

I don't think you'd get a circle, because I think you'd still end up with a mixture of both left and right turns.

[kambites]

Tony2or4 said:

98elise said:

You would end up with a circle.

I don't think you'd get a circle, because I think you'd still end up with a mixture of both left and right turns.

You wouldn't; the "wrong way" curves would gradually straighten out until you could completely straight-line them; then they would eventually get melded into the curves in the other direction either side of them.

You end up with a circle; the only exception being if you started out with a cross-over (a figure of eight).

[s p a c e m a n]

You would end up with a straight line? If you're following the racing line each time then the circumference of the corner will increase every time and you will eventually be going straight, probably.

Seek mental health advice.

Edited by s p a c e m a n on Sunday 4th August 18:47

[Tony2or4]

Wattsie said:

I think this - each racing line smoothes the curve of a corner...

That is a good point: the racing line is in effect a smoothing-out of a given circuit, so that each new circuit is in a sense smoother than the previous one. That was perhaps what I was thinking of when I referred to the concept of an ideal race track in my original post.

[Tony2or4]

kambites said:

Tony2or4 said:

98elise said:

You would end up with a circle.

I don't think you'd get a circle, because I think you'd still end up with a mixture of both left and right turns.

You wouldn't; the "wrong way" curves would gradually straighten out until you could completely straight-line them; then they would eventually get melded into the curves in the other direction either side of them.

You end up with a circle; the only exception being if you started out with a cross-over (a figure of eight).

Good point, well made. Hmm, perhaps I'm revising my view about getting a circle. Or perhaps you'd get a stretched out circle, ie an ellipse, depending on how elongated the overall shape of the original circuit was.

[Hooli]

Tony2or4 said:

kambites said:

Tony2or4 said:

98elise said:

You would end up with a circle.

I don't think you'd get a circle, because I think you'd still end up with a mixture of both left and right turns.

You wouldn't; the "wrong way" curves would gradually straighten out until you could completely straight-line them; then they would eventually get melded into the curves in the other direction either side of them.

You end up with a circle; the only exception being if you started out with a cross-over (a figure of eight).

Good point, well made. Hmm, perhaps I'm revising my view about getting a circle. Or perhaps you'd get a stretched out circle, ie an ellipse, depending on how elongated the overall shape of the original circuit was.

So your saying the perfect race track is at Daytona?

[Zoobeef]

Its never going to be a perfect track until it has a proper loop in it.

[iva cosworth]

This isn't a Lounge subject,requires a modicum of thought.....

Ask for it to be moved to Motorsport or somewhere....

[Tony2or4]

Hooli said:

So your saying the perfect race track is at Daytona?

Clearly anything but ideal as a race track. Perhaps the only way it'd be 'ideal' would be as a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss.

[Captain Muppet]

Tony2or4 said:

Hooli said:

So your saying the perfect race track is at Daytona?

Clearly anything but ideal as a race track. Perhaps the only way it'd be 'ideal' would be as a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss.

That's what the racing line is.

[Tony2or4]

Captain Muppet said:

Tony2or4 said:

Hooli said:

So your saying the perfect race track is at Daytona?

Clearly anything but ideal as a race track. Perhaps the only way it'd be 'ideal' would be as a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss.

That's what the racing line is.

Not quite. The racing line is a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss, and within the confines of the given circuit.

The concept of the oval 'limiting' track shape does away with that italicised restriction.

[Captain Muppet]

Tony2or4 said:

Captain Muppet said:

Tony2or4 said:

Hooli said:

So your saying the perfect race track is at Daytona?

Clearly anything but ideal as a race track. Perhaps the only way it'd be 'ideal' would be as a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss.

That's what the racing line is.

Not quite. The racing line is a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss, and within the confines of the given circuit.

The concept of the oval 'limiting' track shape does away with that italicised restriction.

Your plan for constantly optimised racing lines eventually gives you a circle. The confines of the track eventually go away. Oval racing is nearly there.

[Tony2or4]

Captain Muppet said:

Tony2or4 said:

Captain Muppet said:

Tony2or4 said:

Hooli said:

So your saying the perfect race track is at Daytona?

Clearly anything but ideal as a race track. Perhaps the only way it'd be 'ideal' would be as a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss.

That's what the racing line is.

Not quite. The racing line is a route for getting from A to A in a specified distance and with the minimum of fuss, and within the confines of the given circuit.

The concept of the oval 'limiting' track shape does away with that italicised restriction.

Your plan for constantly optimised racing lines eventually gives you a circle or ellipse. The confines of the track eventually go away. Oval racing is nearly there.

(EFA)


Yep, that's my point entirely.

Hmm. On reflection, I think perhaps we'll just stick with the original, un-idealised, versions of the circuits.