3D scans, scanning cars
Discussion
I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get 3D scans of cars, or companies that do it and will have them? I need them to create CAD drawing for CNC manufacturing/production. These guys scanned a prototype Triumph Fury classic car, owner said it cost about a grand.
http://3dengineers.co.uk/3d-scanning/
Seems to support what they're saying on their website.
http://3dengineers.co.uk/3d-scanning/
Seems to support what they're saying on their website.
FNG said:
These guys scanned a prototype Triumph Fury classic car, owner said it cost about a grand.
http://3dengineers.co.uk/3d-scanning/
Seems to support what they're saying on their website.
Thanks, I've already spoken to them. I'm however looking for existing 3D scans people or companies have. http://3dengineers.co.uk/3d-scanning/
Seems to support what they're saying on their website.
I know these guys do a lot of scanning of cars etc for reverse engineering reasons.
http://www.pes-performance.com/
http://www.pes-performance.com/
kingPanther said:
egomeister said:
What are you expecting when you find people who have scans? Just hand them over to you?
no, I'm willing to pay. egomeister said:
The 1k price mentioned above is pretty reasonable, although if a pure scan it would mean there is a lot of work to be done before getting to the stage where you can CNC components.
What do yo u mean? I need the dimensions (including screws ect) so that I can produce CAD designs for CNC manufacturing, can you think of an alternative way to get what i need? kingPanther said:
egomeister said:
The 1k price mentioned above is pretty reasonable, although if a pure scan it would mean there is a lot of work to be done before getting to the stage where you can CNC components.
What do yo u mean? I need the dimensions (including screws ect) so that I can produce CAD designs for CNC manufacturing, can you think of an alternative way to get what i need? Max_Torque said:
A typical "SCAN" produces a vast number of individual points in 3d space. This is not the "surface" that you would produce from CAD to CNC (because there would be a "toolpath" between every point!, and because all system have a resolution / accuracy limit, these points do not fall perfectly on to a surface). WHat you have to do is take the cloud of points and turn it into a surface, which can be a real PITA, especially where small complex features (like small radii etc) exist.
It seems you know what you're talking about so please excuse my ignorance. How would I go about that? Are the 3D laser scans not required for what I want to do? I need to know the dimensions of the bumpers, ect, where the screws go ect, so I can design an alternative and have it produced via CAD through a CNC machine? Could you please explain in laymen terms? kingPanther said:
Max_Torque said:
A typical "SCAN" produces a vast number of individual points in 3d space. This is not the "surface" that you would produce from CAD to CNC (because there would be a "toolpath" between every point!, and because all system have a resolution / accuracy limit, these points do not fall perfectly on to a surface). WHat you have to do is take the cloud of points and turn it into a surface, which can be a real PITA, especially where small complex features (like small radii etc) exist.
It seems you know what you're talking about so please excuse my ignorance. How would I go about that? Are the 3D laser scans not required for what I want to do? I need to know the dimensions of the bumpers, ect, where the screws go ect, so I can design an alternative and have it produced via CAD through a CNC machine? Could you please explain in laymen terms? Once you have the points you have a few options depending on what your final aim is. You can get software which will automatically produce a surface from the data however, this would probably only be good enough for visualisation and maybe some simulation work. It wouldn't be suitable quality for you to start machining components from.
In your case you would need to reverse engineer the surface data (ie, a zero thickness skin representing the outside of the bumper) in order to get something that is a good enough quality. Then you could begin modifying it to suit your new design. Obviously if your new design is completely different you wouldn't need some of this information but there will always be local areas where you have to match the original data at the edges of the panel etc.
Another thing worth mentioning is that in your case you would need quite a lot of scan data to do the job properly. First you would scan the car with the bumper in place, then remove the bumper so you could scan all the mating faces with wings, undertrays etc. Then these two scans taken at different times would need to be matched up accurately.
egomeister said:
As Max_Torque says, a scan will produce what is known as a point cloud which are thousands of individual points of data that represent positions on the component which you have scanned. These points are useless in isolation, as you cannot use them directly for any ongoing engineering process. It's worth noting also that the data you get is never clean, and will require some work to remove unwanted points, and ensure that all the scans are properly aligned to one another.
Once you have the points you have a few options depending on what your final aim is. You can get software which will automatically produce a surface from the data however, this would probably only be good enough for visualisation and maybe some simulation work. It wouldn't be suitable quality for you to start machining components from.
In your case you would need to reverse engineer the surface data (ie, a zero thickness skin representing the outside of the bumper) in order to get something that is a good enough quality. Then you could begin modifying it to suit your new design. Obviously if your new design is completely different you wouldn't need some of this information but there will always be local areas where you have to match the original data at the edges of the panel etc.
Another thing worth mentioning is that in your case you would need quite a lot of scan data to do the job properly. First you would scan the car with the bumper in place, then remove the bumper so you could scan all the mating faces with wings, undertrays etc. Then these two scans taken at different times would need to be matched up accurately.
thank you for breaking it down for me and giving me such a detailed reply. Is there any alternative for me to get my designs CAD ready for manufacturing? Once you have the points you have a few options depending on what your final aim is. You can get software which will automatically produce a surface from the data however, this would probably only be good enough for visualisation and maybe some simulation work. It wouldn't be suitable quality for you to start machining components from.
In your case you would need to reverse engineer the surface data (ie, a zero thickness skin representing the outside of the bumper) in order to get something that is a good enough quality. Then you could begin modifying it to suit your new design. Obviously if your new design is completely different you wouldn't need some of this information but there will always be local areas where you have to match the original data at the edges of the panel etc.
Another thing worth mentioning is that in your case you would need quite a lot of scan data to do the job properly. First you would scan the car with the bumper in place, then remove the bumper so you could scan all the mating faces with wings, undertrays etc. Then these two scans taken at different times would need to be matched up accurately.
Or do you know where I can get the above information?
kingPanther said:
What do yo u mean? I need the dimensions (including screws ect) so that I can produce CAD designs for CNC manufacturing, can you think of an alternative way to get what i need?
Coming back to this. If you just want mounting positions then you could remove the bumper and digitise the positions with a measuring arm which would give you the information pretty accurately, however this wouldn't provide you with any shape to refer to when designing your new bumper. So you could easily end up with a component that fits to the car nicely but is totally mismatched with the rest of the vehicle!egomeister said:
Coming back to this. If you just want mounting positions then you could remove the bumper and digitise the positions with a measuring arm which would give you the information pretty accurately, however this wouldn't provide you with any shape to refer to when designing your new bumper. So you could easily end up with a component that fits to the car nicely but is totally mismatched with the rest of the vehicle!
Could you do a combination of the 2? kingPanther said:
thank you for breaking it down for me and giving me such a detailed reply. Is there any alternative for me to get my designs CAD ready for manufacturing?
Or do you know where I can get the above information?
For me, the correct process for doing a job like this is pretty much as described. There are probably alternatives to some steps but I think they would reduce the quality of the overall result, and if you compromise in some areas it undermines your investment in the others (ie, if you don't spend the time doing a good surface then you aren't making the most out of your CNC'd tooling)Or do you know where I can get the above information?
The main way to save effort is if you can get the data for the original car, but its not the kind of thing manufacturers tend to do! In this case, you'd bypass all the reverse engineering which is time consuming and a source of inaccuracy and can move straight onto designing your new surface directly in CAD, then on to engineering the component and tooling.
kingPanther said:
egomeister said:
Coming back to this. If you just want mounting positions then you could remove the bumper and digitise the positions with a measuring arm which would give you the information pretty accurately, however this wouldn't provide you with any shape to refer to when designing your new bumper. So you could easily end up with a component that fits to the car nicely but is totally mismatched with the rest of the vehicle!
Could you do a combination of the 2? What are you trying to achieve with this? Do you have some styling ideas/sketches that you need someone else to interpret and produce the CAD info/component design/tooling? Or are you able to produce the surface info yourself if you are able to get hold of the mounting interfaces?
egomeister said:
For me, the correct process for doing a job like this is pretty much as described. There are probably alternatives to some steps but I think they would reduce the quality of the overall result, and if you compromise in some areas it undermines your investment in the others (ie, if you don't spend the time doing a good surface then you aren't making the most out of your CNC'd tooling)
The main way to save effort is if you can get the data for the original car, but its not the kind of thing manufacturers tend to do! In this case, you'd bypass all the reverse engineering which is time consuming and a source of inaccuracy and can move straight onto designing your new surface directly in CAD, then on to engineering the component and tooling.
Ok, that sounds brilliant, do you know where I could obtain the data of the original car? That does sound like it would be more accurate. Thank you for your help, I really do appreciate it. The main way to save effort is if you can get the data for the original car, but its not the kind of thing manufacturers tend to do! In this case, you'd bypass all the reverse engineering which is time consuming and a source of inaccuracy and can move straight onto designing your new surface directly in CAD, then on to engineering the component and tooling.
egomeister said:
Indeed you could, but then you have to match up the two sets of data. Some measuring arms can come with a scanning head which may make life easier as potentially you can perform both operations from the same start point but I'm not familiar with these systems so don't know if its the case.
What are you trying to achieve with this? Do you have some styling ideas/sketches that you need someone else to interpret and produce the CAD info/component design/tooling? Or are you able to produce the surface info yourself if you are able to get hold of the mounting interfaces?
I do have design ideas, and I intend to put them onto CAD myself (I'm a design student) but I obviously need information such as the dimensions and fitting, so that I can have the CAD drawings manufactured. What are you trying to achieve with this? Do you have some styling ideas/sketches that you need someone else to interpret and produce the CAD info/component design/tooling? Or are you able to produce the surface info yourself if you are able to get hold of the mounting interfaces?
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