RE: Motorsport on Monday: 16/03/2015
Monday 16th March 2015
Yes, deep breath, F1 is back for 2015, and so motorsport for the casual viewer officially recommences. And already the toys are being thrown out of the slightly generic-looking carbon fibre pram, with Red Bull adviser (and everyone's favourite forgotten LM24 winner) Dr Helmut Marko raising the threat of the team pulling out because the current regulations will 'kill the sport'.
Is Mercedes' dominance unfair? DiscussThe fact Mercedes-Benz has made further advances with its exceptional engine, and Renault seems unable to even make an engine last for a race weekend, never mind make an engine that's powerful or driveable, has nothing to do with this, of course. Nor does the fact Red Bull's performance on Sunday means it can already write off the season as a likely fourth-place constructor at best bear any weight on what he said. No, it's for the good of the sport. Of course.
Red Bull behind the best in MelbourneIt's happened in the past, said Horner: banning trick exhausts, banning double diffusers, banning McLaren's genius 'second brake pedal' (after expose by photographer Darren Heath): why should it be different this time, argues Horner. The simplest way would be with an engine power equaliser - sort of an 'electronic wastegate' - that would even out power between all the engines, without impacting on their efficiency, driveability or other characteristics. The best engine would still have an advantage - but the bald advantage (or deficit) wouldn't be quite so stark.
Fifth an incredible result for SauberSauber: a messy miracle
One F1 team that's certainly had a tough weekend is Sauber - what with the court case, the three contracted drivers into two cars, the threat of its assets being seized if it wasn't all sorted out to the judge's satisfaction, that sort of stuff. All eyes were thus on the FIA press conference during Friday practice, as team boss Monisha Kaltenborn was due to attend. Admirably, she did too, despite having to dash from court to get there.
Views are still split on Formula E it seemsFormula E: jury out
The latest round of Formula E was helped this weekend in Miami, with Nicolas Prost doing the old man proud once again with a tight victory over one-time F1 racer Scott Speed. Close racing, lots of battles, plenty going on all the time: dream new race series, surely?
Motorsport on Monday: 16/03/2015
F1 is back (and so too are the arguments), Sauber stars and Formula E causes a faint murmur
Is Mercedes' dominance unfair? Discuss
But why Mercedes-Benz naturally says 'tough luck, kumpel', maybe Dr. Marko's right. Those Mercs were so far ahead of the rest, it was a bit of a turn-off for all those bleary-eyed casual viewers to whom only the overall result matters. Racy Spice Christian Horner was more circumspect than Marko but did make a good point - F1 needs some equalisation moves to stop the Silver Arrows running away with another season. No point telling the other teams to just do a better job, because rules dictate there's only so much they're allowed to do: Mercedes-Benz has a massive advantage that's now effectively sealed into the regulations, and so perhaps those regulations need to reflect this with some balancing up.
Red Bull behind the best in Melbourne
It's certainly a talking point. Such equalisations are not uncommon - BTCC's success ballast, GTE sportscars' Balance of Performance - but hardly following the spirit of engineering purity, where doing the best job gets you the best rewards (although that arguably disappeared from F1 years ago...). Whatever your views, we're going to be hearing plenty more of it: there are another 19 races to go between now and the end of November...
Fifth an incredible result for Sauber
One F1 team that's certainly had a tough weekend is Sauber - what with the court case, the three contracted drivers into two cars, the threat of its assets being seized if it wasn't all sorted out to the judge's satisfaction, that sort of stuff. All eyes were thus on the FIA press conference during Friday practice, as team boss Monisha Kaltenborn was due to attend. Admirably, she did too, despite having to dash from court to get there.
So full credit to Kaltenborn, who at one point during the court proceedings was said to have faced prison if things weren't sorted out, for batting off one of the most ridiculous questions of the weekend - do you plan to resign over the mess? Of course not: why should she? Clearly the Sauber legal team has got itself into a wrangle, but that's nothing new for F1. That it's all on her watch is far from ideal - but she has also saved the team from long-rumoured failure, against expectations, and also overseen the creation of a pretty quick and tidy car that scored a top-five position with young new starlet Felipe Nasr. A team in turmoil shouldn't perform nearly so well - so, why should plucky Sauber's embattled boss be singled out with such a daft leading question? Would the same be asked of any other team boss?
Views are still split on Formula E it seems
The latest round of Formula E was helped this weekend in Miami, with Nicolas Prost doing the old man proud once again with a tight victory over one-time F1 racer Scott Speed. Close racing, lots of battles, plenty going on all the time: dream new race series, surely?
Well, PHers are undecided. The series seems contrived, the cars sound like speedy milk floats, they don't seem very quick, a multitude of rules is confusing and, well, there's simply not enough noise to keep everyone awake (apart from the hideous music during replays...). But maybe it's time to show a bit of interest: after all, it's five rounds into the 11-round launch series - and the final round is going to be held in London this coming June. A potential series decider of an FIA world championship coming to Britain? Got to be worth a second look, no?
[Images: LAT]
Discussion
I think it's an ominous sign, that before the GP started I was able to predict the top 5 in the right order....and I dare say had Bottas been fit to drive, I would have been able to predict the top 6.
That shouldn't be possible - but I did.
It's a bit rich that Red Bull are moaning about things being equal, when they enjoyed 4 years of untouchable dominance, but I get the point...just.
As for Formula E - I gave it a second chance this weekend and I'm sorry but no. It just leaves me completely cold.
That shouldn't be possible - but I did.
It's a bit rich that Red Bull are moaning about things being equal, when they enjoyed 4 years of untouchable dominance, but I get the point...just.
As for Formula E - I gave it a second chance this weekend and I'm sorry but no. It just leaves me completely cold.
sounds like sour grapes from Red Bull...when they were dominating none of the other teams called for equalisation. The engine manufacturers should spend more money on R&D and testing during the off season or during the season so the next seasons engine works and is reliable. Red Bull could have chosen another engine supplier, it was their choice to stick with Renault, they have to live with that.
If they go down the equalisation route, then where will the innovation come? there won't be any as the engines will be de-tuned to match those at the back end of the grid and it will become stale. The whole point of F1 is to innovate, to develop new technologies, to tweak existing ones to work around limitations in the technology and rules. With equalisation, we'll just be 1 step closer to a 1 make series - 1 chassis manufacturer, 1 engine manufacturer.
If they go down the equalisation route, then where will the innovation come? there won't be any as the engines will be de-tuned to match those at the back end of the grid and it will become stale. The whole point of F1 is to innovate, to develop new technologies, to tweak existing ones to work around limitations in the technology and rules. With equalisation, we'll just be 1 step closer to a 1 make series - 1 chassis manufacturer, 1 engine manufacturer.
I have two problems with any 'balance of performance' regulations:-
1) Equalisation of power, as you suggest, would benefit those teams who spend more on aero development - step forward RedBull, coincidentally...
(Note that for touring cars aero is a minor contributor to performance, so BoP through power makes a lot more sense)
2) It will make overtaking even harder - note the comments this year about it being even more difficult to drive in someone's slipstream. Exactly what F1 doesn't need...
Other comments:-
- This is F1 - the (alleged) pinnacle of motorsport. F1 should be encouraging teams and engineers into ever-greater flights of invention and fancy, but currently they're being tied in regulatory knots and spend a lot of time loophole-hunting. WEC looks far more entertaining right now, and WRC seems to be learning finally...
- We've just come out of 4 years of RedBull near-dominance - if their engine hadn't been lacklustre back then, they would have been at least as dominant as Mercedes are now. As it was their strategy meant that (at least in 2011 and 2013) they had a confident run through the season. Everyone was moaning then, but nothing was done. Note also that was a 1-horse race as Vettel was the very clear #1 and team orders existed.
- Rinse-and-repeat for Ferrari throughout the Schumacher era. Exactly the same predictability, exactly the same complaints, exactly the same lack of response.
SO, rather than try and hold back a successful team whose lead seems unassailable due to the restrictive rules that everyone agreed to, why not look at relaxing the rules to let everyone else catch up.
AND, can we please please do something about the aero and the difficulties that creates for close driving and the consequent 'normal' overtaking, as opposed to DRS-enabled overtaking. That is the one thing that would improve the spectacle, regardless of whether one team are dominant.
1) Equalisation of power, as you suggest, would benefit those teams who spend more on aero development - step forward RedBull, coincidentally...
(Note that for touring cars aero is a minor contributor to performance, so BoP through power makes a lot more sense)
2) It will make overtaking even harder - note the comments this year about it being even more difficult to drive in someone's slipstream. Exactly what F1 doesn't need...
Other comments:-
- This is F1 - the (alleged) pinnacle of motorsport. F1 should be encouraging teams and engineers into ever-greater flights of invention and fancy, but currently they're being tied in regulatory knots and spend a lot of time loophole-hunting. WEC looks far more entertaining right now, and WRC seems to be learning finally...
- We've just come out of 4 years of RedBull near-dominance - if their engine hadn't been lacklustre back then, they would have been at least as dominant as Mercedes are now. As it was their strategy meant that (at least in 2011 and 2013) they had a confident run through the season. Everyone was moaning then, but nothing was done. Note also that was a 1-horse race as Vettel was the very clear #1 and team orders existed.
- Rinse-and-repeat for Ferrari throughout the Schumacher era. Exactly the same predictability, exactly the same complaints, exactly the same lack of response.
SO, rather than try and hold back a successful team whose lead seems unassailable due to the restrictive rules that everyone agreed to, why not look at relaxing the rules to let everyone else catch up.
AND, can we please please do something about the aero and the difficulties that creates for close driving and the consequent 'normal' overtaking, as opposed to DRS-enabled overtaking. That is the one thing that would improve the spectacle, regardless of whether one team are dominant.
Any more equalisation and F1 really will be the WWE of motorsport. It's up to the others to catch up; not the FiA to handicap the leaders. Sadly, it happens too much in motorsport. The same teams dominate in football, yet they aren't hobbled to let the minnows win a Title.
F1 has become too much about 'The Show'.
F1 has become too much about 'The Show'.
havoc said:
AND, can we please please do something about the aero and the difficulties that creates for close driving and the consequent 'normal' overtaking, as opposed to DRS-enabled overtaking. That is the one thing that would improve the spectacle, regardless of whether one team are dominant.
Lots of good points here, but on this one, isn't that why the front wings are five weet wide and the rear wings are two feet wide? I thought that was meant to improve the aero performance of the following car?there will always be dominance of some kind, but not quiet the margins we are seeing.
in indy car at least there is different drivers winning different races.
i dont understand why drivers are changing diff settings brake bias etc while driving at 200 mph? maybe that needs to be stopped. and why so much aero on the front wings? 1 aerofoil.. that it...and ban all those silly wingletts.
Red Bull have shot themselves in the foot... both pairs of cars are the only ones to run renault engines, im supprised Torro Rosso didnt go Merc power
also ive always favoured manual gear changes and that possiblity of missing a gear that bought so much close racing in the 80's, but then the great Lewes / Nico battle last year showed how close racing you can have, if the cars are equal, but as said above, this aero off the back of cars upsetting those behind needs to stop.
in indy car at least there is different drivers winning different races.
i dont understand why drivers are changing diff settings brake bias etc while driving at 200 mph? maybe that needs to be stopped. and why so much aero on the front wings? 1 aerofoil.. that it...and ban all those silly wingletts.
Red Bull have shot themselves in the foot... both pairs of cars are the only ones to run renault engines, im supprised Torro Rosso didnt go Merc power
also ive always favoured manual gear changes and that possiblity of missing a gear that bought so much close racing in the 80's, but then the great Lewes / Nico battle last year showed how close racing you can have, if the cars are equal, but as said above, this aero off the back of cars upsetting those behind needs to stop.
So Red Bull dominate for years, then are all upset when they haven't made the best car recently?
You don't see Man United getting all upset that Man City now have enough money to buy decent players too, and demanding they play a bit less well so United can win again.
Again - article needs proofreading properly, but I did like the description of Christian Horner as "Racy Spice".
You don't see Man United getting all upset that Man City now have enough money to buy decent players too, and demanding they play a bit less well so United can win again.
Again - article needs proofreading properly, but I did like the description of Christian Horner as "Racy Spice".
The new F1 is just far too expensive. McLaren Honda last on the track and visibly embarrassing. The same team and Williams with minor sponsorship. Bernie needs to smell the roses while there are still a few teams left. As for Formula milk float, or e. A retirement home for failed F1 drivers it might be, but really, swopping cars half way through the winner is the Duracell bunny! I hope no one paid to watch. Pants.
F1 cannot still be considered the pinnacle of motorsport. Aside from being a dull watch, they use tire technology designed to last for short periods of time and the rules and money have made the thing processional...oh and the controlling organisation is as bent as the Football one with the guy in charge of the same unfortunate ilk as Mr Blatter!
Seriously, if you're playing on your scalextric with your son and you want to make it more realistic, put both cars on the same groove!
The pinnacle of motor racing has to be the WEC, cars with similar speeds to F1....at night, often on unlit parts of the track, designed to last long distances with long lasting tyres, technology that IS being transferred to normal road cars such as the lights and with unbelievable efficiency. Beautiful GT cars the average Joe can recognise on the same track at the same time, Hell it's several races in one. What more can you ask?
F1? Just record it, that way you can watch the start and fast forward to the end. Best bit about the last race was the comment on the podium to Arnie "I thought you were taller".
You could spend hundreds of pounds on the Silverstone GP or far less on an entire week at Le Mans. I know exactly what I'd do!
Seriously, if you're playing on your scalextric with your son and you want to make it more realistic, put both cars on the same groove!
The pinnacle of motor racing has to be the WEC, cars with similar speeds to F1....at night, often on unlit parts of the track, designed to last long distances with long lasting tyres, technology that IS being transferred to normal road cars such as the lights and with unbelievable efficiency. Beautiful GT cars the average Joe can recognise on the same track at the same time, Hell it's several races in one. What more can you ask?
F1? Just record it, that way you can watch the start and fast forward to the end. Best bit about the last race was the comment on the podium to Arnie "I thought you were taller".
You could spend hundreds of pounds on the Silverstone GP or far less on an entire week at Le Mans. I know exactly what I'd do!
F1 should have far fewer rules to permit more innovation. This freezing of engine development is just the latest stupidity. Where are the 6-wheelers, the twin chassis, the side skirts, the ABS, the V12/flat 12/v8 engines? All excluded because of the rules. If F1 has any justification it's in no-holds-barred innovation that can then trickle down to lower formulae and eventually to the road.
Now we have unequal cars that teams can't address, in addition to the years-long baked-in advantage of Ferrari that will never go away. It's a farce. I fast-forwarded through it last night and then erased it. It's sad that we have a brilliant British driver at the pinnacle of a formula that is essentially moribund.
Now we have unequal cars that teams can't address, in addition to the years-long baked-in advantage of Ferrari that will never go away. It's a farce. I fast-forwarded through it last night and then erased it. It's sad that we have a brilliant British driver at the pinnacle of a formula that is essentially moribund.
trackside tripod said:
The pinnacle of motor racing has to be the WEC, cars with similar speeds to F1....at night, often on unlit parts of the track, designed to last long distances with long lasting tyres, technology that IS being transferred to normal road cars such as the lights and with unbelievable efficiency. Beautiful GT cars the average Joe can recognise on the same track at the same time, Hell it's several races in one. What more can you ask?
Couldn't agree more. WEC is a stunning spectacle, one constantly innovating and, joy, opening up for 2015 at Silverstone next month! Who's going?
mattlad said:
"If you're not winning you're not trying" is how the saying used to go in the seventies.
It's not the Mercedes teams job to slow down it is the other teams jobs to speed up and get competitive.
Simples!;)
That would be all well and good if it was chassis or aero differences rather than the power unit where the regulations restrict the number of changes that can be made.It's not the Mercedes teams job to slow down it is the other teams jobs to speed up and get competitive.
Simples!;)
Ian974 said:
mattlad said:
"If you're not winning you're not trying" is how the saying used to go in the seventies.
It's not the Mercedes teams job to slow down it is the other teams jobs to speed up and get competitive.
Simples!;)
That would be all well and good if it was chassis or aero differences rather than the power unit where the regulations restrict the number of changes that can be made.It's not the Mercedes teams job to slow down it is the other teams jobs to speed up and get competitive.
Simples!;)
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