Dull GP???

[tvrforever]

So who else read the full Sunday papers during the GP? Not sure as why - there were a couple of bits of interest - but left me feeling cold & bored

Isn't it about time the "euro GP" was moved around Europe like it used to?

[pies]

I think Bernie has the Europe GP earmarked for the chop

Boring race

[FourWheelDrift]

With Hockenheim experiencing financial problems with the GP (like Spa) the Nurburgring might end up hosting the German GP. Then the Euro GP would move elsewhere become maybe the Russian or Indian Grand Prix or what about Tahiti? That sounds like a nice location, sun, sea, the perfect location for entertaining corporate guests...................eh?...What's that? What do you mean what about the race?

[magic torch]

The worst part is the passing happens in the pits, not the track.

Unfortunately regardless of the track this would have been the case

[fozzi]

magic torch said:

The worst part is the passing happens in the pits, not the track. Unfortunately regardless of the track this would have been the case

No problem passing in GP2, so guess F1 regs are to blame.. as if we didn't know that already!!

[castex]

Raikkonen managed it!

[FourWheelDrift]

fozzi said:

No problem passing in GP2, so guess F1 regs are to blame.. as if we didn't know that already!!

I seem to recall last years GP was a rather good race with quite a lot of overtaking. Now this years cars are almost as fast as they were last year, 'almost' being the key here, but the cars are slower in a straight line. So the clever aerodynamicists and engineers have got the speed out of the cars by being quicker in the corners. I'm sure I have heard drivers already mentioned this.

Now an overtaking manouver usually happens because of the speed differential between full throttle/braking point and turn in speed. If the turn in speed this year is higher than it was last year and the full throttle speed is lower than last year the difference between the two is smaller, so to overtake someone there is smaller (to use a Ronism) "window of opportunity". Less chance of overtaking on the track.

Am I wrong?

[magic torch]

FourWheelDrift said:

fozzi said: No problem passing in GP2, so guess F1 regs are to blame.. as if we didn't know that already!! I seem to recall last years GP was a rather good race with quite a lot of overtaking. Now this years cars are almost as fast as they were last year, 'almost' being the key here, but the cars are slower in a straight line. So the clever aerodynamicists and engineers have got the speed out of the cars by being quicker in the corners. I'm sure I have heard drivers already mentioned this. Now an overtaking manouver usually happens because of the speed differential between full throttle/braking point and turn in speed. If the turn in speed this year is higher than it was last year and the full throttle speed is lower than last year the difference between the two is smaller, so to overtake someone there is smaller (to use a Ronism) "window of opportunity". Less chance of overtaking on the track. Am I wrong?

Nope, you're right.

[D-Angle]

Run it on the Nordschleife, that would put the fun back into it.

[kevin ritson]

FourWheelDrift said:

I seem to recall last years GP was a rather good race with quite a lot of overtaking.

That'll be the tyre rules they had last year, combine it with a ban on refuelling and it'll be like the '80s again, no need to "wait until the stops"

Still, I enjoyed the race - the Schuey/Alonso battle is coming along nicely. I was watching it from one of the boxes at Brands during the HSCC races (which were also very entertaining) and didn't know which way to look. Shame the Ferrari was clearly the fastest car, though, Massa's pace was proving that.

[madazrx7]

magic torch said:

FourWheelDrift said: ...Now an overtaking manouver usually happens because of the speed differential between full throttle/braking point and turn in speed. If the turn in speed this year is higher than it was last year and the full throttle speed is lower than last year the difference between the two is smaller, so to overtake someone there is smaller (to use a Ronism) "window of opportunity". Less chance of overtaking on the track. Am I wrong? Nope, you're right.

In my extremely simplistic solution to making racing (in many classes) more interesting, the key is less downforce and grip = higher straight line speeds & slower cornering speeds = longer braking distances and far more overtaking.
Sorted

[D_Mike]

The key in F1 is to remove the pitstops, that way the only way to get past somebody is on the track... How the FIA can say safety is their main priority and still allow mid-race refueling is beyond me.

[SamHH]

tvrforever said:

Isn't it about time the "euro GP" was moved around Europe like it used to?

I imagine the problem with this would be that lots of different circuits would have to invest money to bring their facilites upto the standard that F1 demands, but they would only get F1 revenue to pay off that investment every few years. I don't know much about economics though; feel free to prove me wrong.

[anonymous-user]

glad i went to prescott instead!

[Eric Mc]

F1 is too much of a cash munching monster to attract any "normal" circuit to want a go these days.

Only Nation States (preferably States in which the resident taxpayers have a limited say in where their money is spent) can afford to upgrade facilities in the current era.

[stew-typeR]

madazrx7 said:

magic torch said: FourWheelDrift said: ...Now an overtaking manouver usually happens because of the speed differential between full throttle/braking point and turn in speed. If the turn in speed this year is higher than it was last year and the full throttle speed is lower than last year the difference between the two is smaller, so to overtake someone there is smaller (to use a Ronism) "window of opportunity". Less chance of overtaking on the track. Am I wrong? Nope, you're right. In my extremely simplistic solution to making racing (in many classes) more interesting, the key is less downforce and grip = higher straight line speeds & slower cornering speeds = longer braking distances and far more overtaking. Sorted

i dont think thats quite the case. look at the GP2 cars. less dependant on downforce created by the top part of the car(winglets/flip ups/etc etc). they are able to race more closely even with good downforce levels(created by the underbody/diffuser). the changes to the F1 cars lately have just made the whole situation worse in reality.

[LongQ]

[quote=stew-typeR the changes to the F1 cars lately have just made the whole situation worse in reality.[/quote]

Hmm. Have to agree. Ludicrous to be stuck 6 car lengths or more behind someone who is 3 secs a lap slower but with no way to get close enough to be able to pass in the short braking zone. ONly a mistkae by the other driver, traffic, blue flags or a pit stop seem to be the differentiators.

I often wonder whether most of the aero developments are more about managing the air behind the car to make it as 'dirty' as possible than they are about enhancing speed and grip. Especially for the midfield runners.

[munter]

D_Mike said:

How the FIA can say safety is their main priority and still allow mid-race refueling is beyond me.

When was the last time someone got killed or seriously hurt in a refueling accident?.... Then compare that with how many people have been killed as a result of a mistake/accident on track.

Just remove the wings and we'll see cornering speeds come down and a bit more sliding around corners

[D_Mike]

LongQ said:

I often wonder whether most of the aero developments are more about managing the air behind the car to make it as 'dirty' as possible than they are about enhancing speed and grip. Especially for the midfield runners.

I remember Button saying sometime a few seasons ago that the Ferrari was noticably harder to follow than other cars.

[sb-1]

The GP2 guys managed to make it a good race though...with lots of overtaking.