More mass dampers

[cj_eds]

Reports today saying Renault aren't using their mass dampers this weekend, despite the FIA saying they wouldn't retrospectively punish them if they decide to ban them next week.
Renault playing to safe or they know they are actually illegal? Or just out to prove a point that they feel their car can be competitve this weekend with or without the dampers?

[racefan_uk]

If they run without them and do really well, then Ferrari need to be worried, really worried.

I still think that the German GP was a blip, probably more that they pushed exceptionally hard because it was Micheal Schumacher's home GP (maybe his last?).

[Graham]

SO how come torro rosso have been told to remove their mass dampers it renault wouldnt be retrospectivly punished for using this this weekend...


F I A - Ferrari International Appreciation ?

[ehasler]

Haven't Ferrari removed them as well though?

I'm not sure this shows any pro-Ferrari bias though - lots of conspiracy theorists seem to think it does though

[jamieboy]

I think trackcar summed it up here:

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=294875&f=42&h=0

If Renault win it's because they've got the best car, if they lose it's because the rules were changed 'to favour Ferrari'. If the removal of their mass damper is the reason Renault are off the pace, I'm not sure how we explain the immediately-preceding French and US races, though. Or the San Marino or European races either, come to that.

[SamHH]

racefan_uk said:

I still think that the German GP was a blip, probably more that they pushed exceptionally hard because it was Micheal Schumacher's home GP (maybe his last?).

So you think M.S. and Ferrari will not push as hard for the rest of the season?

[kevin ritson]

ehasler said:

Haven't Ferrari removed them as well though?

I'm not sure this shows any pro-Ferrari bias though - lots of conspiracy theorists seem to think it does though

Have a read of Mark Hughes' Autosport column this week - McLaren actually did the dirty work but Ferrari then pushed hard on the FIA. Mark wasn't criticising, if anything I think he actually showed admiration for the intensity of Ferrari's fight. Sadly, I think they may just have devalued this year's championship, I can only hope that Flav's relationship with Max and Bernie pays off.

5 years of Ferrari domination and not a dicky bird from the FIA. 18 months from Renault and they cry foul...

[jamieboy]

kevin ritson said:

Sadly, I think they may just have devalued this year's championship, I can only hope that Flav's relationship with Max and Bernie pays off.

5 years of Ferrari domination and not a dicky bird from the FIA. 18 months from Renault and they cry foul...

How does it 'devalue' the results of the San Marino, European, French, and US races? Is it not as simple as Ferrari and Renault are each doing better at different stages of the season, and will probably continue to do so?

[AlexS]

Thing I found interesting with the Renault was the apparent devastating effect that the removal of the dampers had on the cars performance, both over a single lap (it never looked quick during qualifying) or over longer stints (the car just got slower as it went on). When other inovative systems have been removed (McLaren 2nd brake pedal, BAR linked front wheels) the effect on performance has only been very slight. In the last GP the Renault dropped from being the best/2nd best car on the grid (depends on the circuit to some extent) to being behind the McLarens, Williams, Hondas and even the Toyotas in terms of performance.

[d-man]

I think all the mass damper using teams have been affected, its just hurt Renault the most. They were running it towards the end of last year and its a core part of this year's car, rather than just something that's been added to a car designed to run without it.

Do you really think Ferrari would lean hard on the FIA to get something banned that they're using themselves if they're not sure it'll disadvantage their rivals more?

As for this weekend, Torro Rosso went to scrutineering with their mass dampers fitted. The stewards told them to remove the system. I'm pretty sure the stewards now travel from race to race rather than being provided by the hosts, so as to give a more 'consistent' interpretation of the rules. I guess they've been lent on by FIA in the past week to interpret the rules the way the FIA would like.

[kevin ritson]

jamieboy said:

kevin ritson said:

Sadly, I think they may just have devalued this year's championship, I can only hope that Flav's relationship with Max and Bernie pays off.

5 years of Ferrari domination and not a dicky bird from the FIA. 18 months from Renault and they cry foul...

How does it 'devalue' the results of the San Marino, European, French, and US races? Is it not as simple as Ferrari and Renault are each doing better at different stages of the season, and will probably continue to do so?

It devalues it because the playing field is no longer level. Changing the rules mid-season because of a dodgy interpretation, which most of the public would fail to understand, only reinforces negative perceptions that most people now have of the sport. Reminds me far too much of the tyre debacle in 2003...guess who benefitted from that one?

The whole thing's a farce and I certainly won't be tuning in on Sunday, last time I did that was during 2004 when the whole sport became far too interested in examining the contents of its backside

[flemke]

kevin ritson said:

ehasler said:

Haven't Ferrari removed them as well though?

I'm not sure this shows any pro-Ferrari bias though - lots of conspiracy theorists seem to think it does though

Have a read of Mark Hughes' Autosport column this week - McLaren actually did the dirty work but Ferrari then pushed hard on the FIA. Mark wasn't criticising, if anything I think he actually showed admiration for the intensity of Ferrari's fight. Sadly, I think they may just have devalued this year's championship, I can only hope that Flav's relationship with Max and Bernie pays off.

5 years of Ferrari domination and not a dicky bird from the FIA. 18 months from Renault and they cry foul...

That's what Hughes wrote, but I'm not sure that it stacks up.

It's been plain for several races now that McL. were out of both Championships this year.
Yes, Ron can't stand Briatore the individual, but he seems to dislike the entire Ferrari thing a lot more - that's an intense rivalry that goes back 25 years.

It's got to be better for McL. next year if one of their drivers is the reigning Champion.
Not to mention which, it would certainly undermine the team's relationship with Alonso if he were to believe that they had pursued a dubious technicality in order to deny him the '06 title.

[LongQ]

flemke said:

Not to mention which, it would certainly undermine the team's relationship with Alonso if he were to believe that they had pursued a dubious technicality in order to deny him the '06 title.

Well now there is a very astute observation.

But what is getting to Alonso that has resulted in his return to the antics of his earlier career (if I remember correctly ...)?

Personal problems? Family issues?

Or McL raising the question of mass dampers with the FIA?

Did Ron do a deal with Alonso behind his manager's back and Briatore is now stirring things up because he is pi$$ed off at not haveing a number 1 driver next year, the Dennis/Briatore antipathy coming to the fore?

Whatever, it seems to be a good main show with the racing as a side show.

Full soap opera status soon.

Where's Los Angeles? You can never find a good script writer when you need one ...

[FourWheelDrift]

LongQ said:

Where's Los Angeles? You can never find a good script writer when you need one ...

Yep, he's always saying that too.

[LongQ]

FourWheelDrift said:

LongQ said:

Where's Los Angeles? You can never find a good script writer when you need one ...

Yep, he's always saying that too.

[flemke]

LongQ said:

flemke said:

Not to mention which, it would certainly undermine the team's relationship with Alonso if he were to believe that they had pursued a dubious technicality in order to deny him the '06 title.

Well now there is a very astute observation.

But what is getting to Alonso that has resulted in his return to the antics of his earlier career (if I remember correctly ...)?

Personal problems? Family issues?

Or McL raising the question of mass dampers with the FIA?

Did Ron do a deal with Alonso behind his manager's back and Briatore is now stirring things up because he is pi$$ed off at not haveing a number 1 driver next year, the Dennis/Briatore antipathy coming to the fore?

Hughes wrote that it was McLaren that filed the mass-damper complaint with the FIA.
Ron is saying that McL. "certainly were not the catalyst" for the FIA's scrutiny of the matter and the subsequent ban.

I would not know who actually catalysed the affair.

It is obvious that a number of players have an incentive to blame McL.

- Ferrari (as well as other teams), because they must be worried about Alonso at McL. next year. Ferrari especially would also have an incentive to try to make McL. look unsporting if Raikkonen were still in play. Ferrari's accusing McL. would futhermore deflect attention away from themselves - at whom almost certainly at least a portion of it should focus.
- Renault, insofar as Briatore hates Dennis, and would love to induce Alonso to feel buyer's remorse.
- FIA, in that McL. has challenged them more consistently and effectively than any other team has, and Ron in particular has made Minnie's life difficult.

Perhaps in some way McL. really did get this thing started, but one can see why a number of other parties would be motivated to put it about that they had done, even if the truth were otherwise.

[dave_sw1]

a leaked report shows Norbert Hagg has been fitted with a mass damper, it should increase his speed to the pie tent after the race by 15%

[lewis360]

these things are poping up at every meeting now STR have been found using them! when will it just get band then we can get talking bout stoping that engine freeze!!!

[robbiemeister]

Appeal upheld.

Dampers banned.