More rumours - Michael Schumacher to retire
Discussion
GP.com said:
Michael Schumacher is behaving oddly. He made a stupid mistake in qualifying in Hungary and paid for it with a penalty that dropped him to 11th on the grid. In the race his driving ability was as brilliant as ever, but his strategic thinking seemed to have gone to pieces in the final laps of the race. On a day when Fernando Alonso was out and would score no points, Michael was second and heading for eight points. That would have closed the gap in the championship to just three points. His tyres were shot but presumably Michael was confident that he could hold off de la Rosa. In order to achieve that, however, he sacrificed a 15secs advantage over fourth-placed Nick Heidfeld. With nine laps to go Michael was lapping 2.3secs a lap slower than the BMW driver - but there was traffic between them. With a clear track Heidfeld might have caught Michael in seven laps but the timing sheets reveal that in the laps that followed the BMW driver lost three and half seconds with traffic and only closed on Schumacher because Michael was losing more time in his fight with de la Rosa.
Thus if he had let de la Rosa go, he would have dropped two points in his tally and would have closed the World Championship gap to five points. Instead he was outrun by de la Rosa and then crashed into Heidfeld in a desperate attempt to stop the BMW driver overtaking. In doing so he wiped out any score and was fortunate that Kubica's disqualification gave him one point. The gap to Alonso is now 10 points. All things considered it was very un-Michael-like state of affairs and a huge missed opportunity.
At the same time, the sudden burst of activity in the Formula 1 driver market suggests that some important decisions have been made that mean that middle-ranking drivers are no longer waiting to see if they can move up Formula 1's greasy pole and are signing deals because they see no better opportunities. The Red Bull announcement that Mark Webber and David Coulthard will be its drivers next year, means that Scuderia Toro Rosso will now almost certainly keep Tonio Liuzzi and Scott Speed. That means that there is no place left for Felipe Massa to go if Ferrari was planning to park him somewhere else and run the superteam of Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen. Massa is absurdly confident that all will be well and that hints that he knows what he is doing next year. And if that is the case, Michael Schumacher has to be retiring because Raikkonen is not going to Renault and it is almost certain, given the Webber move, that Renault will sign Heikki Kovalainen to partner Giancarlo Fisichella.
There are people who think that the superteam idea is still possible but Michael's little team of people at Maranello have never worked with team mates having equal opportunities. Michael has always used his number two as a servant to do the dirty work for him. Raikkonen is not going to do that. On top of this Jean Todt and Ross Brawn are both saying that the management structure at Ferrari will be revealed at the end of the year. If they were staying one would have thought that the team would have made some kind of announcement, if only for the sake of stability and to stop stories like this one being written. And if Todt and Brawn are on the move, then the only logical conclusion has to be that Michael is stopping - and is hoping to go out with an eighth World title in his pocket.
One must assume that delaying the announcement is designed to keep up the momentum of the Ferrari charge to the World title.
No doubt Ferrari will deny this story but as always time will tell whether we are right.
Ross Brawn has been talking about leaving F1 (either a sabbatical or permanently and Todt too) that's 2/3rds of the Schumacher appreciation society.
Just speculation at this time - I remember someone using the fact that Barrichello wasn't as p*ssed off about giving up a win to Schuey in Austria '02 as he was giving up second place the year before as a compelling reason for the German's retirement (ie: Rubens 'knew' he would be no. 1 next year)
As for the strategy argument, I saw Michael's reason for retirement partly as a direct result of his refusal to yield a place - something that he's done all of his career and also because he has never learnt to nurse a set of tyres - the sprint-fuel formula has meant he has rarely needed to.
As for the strategy argument, I saw Michael's reason for retirement partly as a direct result of his refusal to yield a place - something that he's done all of his career and also because he has never learnt to nurse a set of tyres - the sprint-fuel formula has meant he has rarely needed to.
Li'l pugs said:
Please don't retire. As I watched him being passed and saw him retire out I cheared and cheared and then realised........If the cheating German isn't in it, who am I gonna hate ? F1 needs a hate figure, keep racing Schumi, we need you !!!
Very true. Michael is skilled, undeniably, but a boring German cheat so is clearly in the hate club. I think his brother is also a founder member of the hate club too. Never has there been such an overpaid waste of skin put in an F1 car. How can anyone justify paying him anything, let alone the huge amounts he gets.
Regardless of how many people hate him (myself not included) and say he's boring, he is still the best/most accomplished F1 driver in the sports history. I have nothing but respect for him, because respect is given where its due.
Yes I know, he's not the most charismatic personality on the F1 grid. But compared to Kimi Raikkonen, he's a hoot.
Maybe he is coming toward the end of his F1 career, due to age or lack of goals left to reach. Who knows. Are there any more records for him to break?
Although Ayrton Senna is my greatest hero, my greatest respect by a long shot goes to Micheal Schumacher. The man may have started out very arrogant and not a very likeable guy in the publics eyes, but he is undeniably, a genius. Its just the clear picture of this mans extraordinary talent has been clouded by the disliking of his persona for a number of the public. Thankfully I am not one of them, and I feel privileged to have watched his career unfold and mature into a very special display of god given talent behind the wheel of an F1 car.
Yes I know, he's not the most charismatic personality on the F1 grid. But compared to Kimi Raikkonen, he's a hoot.
Maybe he is coming toward the end of his F1 career, due to age or lack of goals left to reach. Who knows. Are there any more records for him to break?
Although Ayrton Senna is my greatest hero, my greatest respect by a long shot goes to Micheal Schumacher. The man may have started out very arrogant and not a very likeable guy in the publics eyes, but he is undeniably, a genius. Its just the clear picture of this mans extraordinary talent has been clouded by the disliking of his persona for a number of the public. Thankfully I am not one of them, and I feel privileged to have watched his career unfold and mature into a very special display of god given talent behind the wheel of an F1 car.
caduceus said:
Regardless of how many people hate him (myself not included) and say he's boring, he is still the best/most accomplished F1 driver in the sports history. I have nothing but respect for him, because respect is given where its due.
Yes I know, he's not the most charismatic personality on the F1 grid. But compared to Kimi Raikkonen, he's a hoot.
Maybe he is coming toward the end of his F1 career, due to age or lack of goals left to reach. Who knows. Are there any more records for him to break?
Although Ayrton Senna is my greatest hero, my greatest respect by a long shot goes to Micheal Schumacher. The man may have started out very arrogant and not a very likeable guy in the publics eyes, but he is undeniably, a genius. Its just the clear picture of this mans extraordinary talent has been clouded by the disliking of his persona for a number of the public. Thankfully I am not one of them, and I feel privileged to have watched his career unfold and mature into a very special display of god given talent behind the wheel of an F1 car.
Yes I know, he's not the most charismatic personality on the F1 grid. But compared to Kimi Raikkonen, he's a hoot.
Maybe he is coming toward the end of his F1 career, due to age or lack of goals left to reach. Who knows. Are there any more records for him to break?
Although Ayrton Senna is my greatest hero, my greatest respect by a long shot goes to Micheal Schumacher. The man may have started out very arrogant and not a very likeable guy in the publics eyes, but he is undeniably, a genius. Its just the clear picture of this mans extraordinary talent has been clouded by the disliking of his persona for a number of the public. Thankfully I am not one of them, and I feel privileged to have watched his career unfold and mature into a very special display of god given talent behind the wheel of an F1 car.
I agree, I like him now and I like the way he gives his all to win. F1 is all about cheating, the teams that win just don't get caught.
caduceus said:
Regardless of how many people hate him (myself not included) and say he's boring, he is still the best/most accomplished F1 driver in the sports history. I have nothing but respect for him, because respect is given where its due.
Yes I know, he's not the most charismatic personality on the F1 grid. But compared to Kimi Raikkonen, he's a hoot.
Maybe he is coming toward the end of his F1 career, due to age or lack of goals left to reach. Who knows. Are there any more records for him to break?
Although Ayrton Senna is my greatest hero, my greatest respect by a long shot goes to Micheal Schumacher. The man may have started out very arrogant and not a very likeable guy in the publics eyes, but he is undeniably, a genius. Its just the clear picture of this mans extraordinary talent has been clouded by the disliking of his persona for a number of the public. Thankfully I am not one of them, and I feel privileged to have watched his career unfold and mature into a very special display of god given talent behind the wheel of an F1 car.
Yes I know, he's not the most charismatic personality on the F1 grid. But compared to Kimi Raikkonen, he's a hoot.
Maybe he is coming toward the end of his F1 career, due to age or lack of goals left to reach. Who knows. Are there any more records for him to break?
Although Ayrton Senna is my greatest hero, my greatest respect by a long shot goes to Micheal Schumacher. The man may have started out very arrogant and not a very likeable guy in the publics eyes, but he is undeniably, a genius. Its just the clear picture of this mans extraordinary talent has been clouded by the disliking of his persona for a number of the public. Thankfully I am not one of them, and I feel privileged to have watched his career unfold and mature into a very special display of god given talent behind the wheel of an F1 car.
Thank you for talking some sense
caduceus said:
Regardless of how many people hate him (myself not included) and say he's boring, he is still the best/most accomplished F1 driver in the sports history. I have nothing but respect for him, because respect is given where its due.
If his only crime was being boring, or always winning, or good looks - then I'd agree with you.
How can you respect a top sportsman for cheating at his sport?
Who respected Ben Johnson (the Canadian sprinter)?
I don't think the guy has ever cheated.
He has made some pretty desperate moves in the past - Damon 95/Jacques 97 - but then I don't know a race driver alive that has an ability to run up the front who hasn't made a few moves he doesn't regret upon reflection.
The weekend was typical of his character and he's paid the price - like he did in 97. However he isn't a cheat, just very competitive and his brain works in this way under pressure.
It's easy for knockers to nit pick at one or two incidents and then create a story from that but as I see it the record shows more race wins, pole positions and world championships than anyone else in the history of the sport - surely you got to respect that and surely you have to conceed the biggest element in all of that achievement was skill and hard work.
He has made some pretty desperate moves in the past - Damon 95/Jacques 97 - but then I don't know a race driver alive that has an ability to run up the front who hasn't made a few moves he doesn't regret upon reflection.
The weekend was typical of his character and he's paid the price - like he did in 97. However he isn't a cheat, just very competitive and his brain works in this way under pressure.
It's easy for knockers to nit pick at one or two incidents and then create a story from that but as I see it the record shows more race wins, pole positions and world championships than anyone else in the history of the sport - surely you got to respect that and surely you have to conceed the biggest element in all of that achievement was skill and hard work.
The FIA have certainly found him and his teams (both Benetton and Ferrari) guilty of cheating (and docked him points accordingly). People tend to forget that one whole season of his was officially wiped from the records - although for some strange reason he was allowed retain all his personal championship points and wins he made that particular year.
Schumacher is top of the pile when it comes to statistics but near the bottom when it comes to ethics and sportsmanship. His reputation will never be improved - and this year he has made matters worse.
Schumacher is top of the pile when it comes to statistics but near the bottom when it comes to ethics and sportsmanship. His reputation will never be improved - and this year he has made matters worse.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 9th August 11:28
Eric Mc said:
The FIA have certainly found him and his teams (both Benetton and Ferrari) guilty of cheating (and docked him points accordingly). People tend to forget that one whole season of his was officially wiped from the records - although for some strange reason he was allowed retain all his personal championship points and wins he made that particular year.
Schumacher is top of the pile when it comes to statistics but near the bottom when it comes to ethics and sportsmanship. His reputation will never be improved - and this year he has made matters worse.
Schumacher is top of the pile when it comes to statistics but near the bottom when it comes to ethics and sportsmanship. His reputation will never be improved - and this year he has made matters worse.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 9th August 11:28
Have to agree. I admire his skill and achievements but certainly not the way he has (at times) achieved them!! The Damon Hill incident can be called nothing but cheating as it was a pre-meditated attempt to hoof his rival off the circuit in order to win the championship. It's like tripping up a runner as they approach the winning line!!
p490kvp said:
I don't think the guy has ever cheated.
Clearly there is a line between:
- completely fair
- dodgy, but within the rules
- cheating
So he did not cheat at Monaco?
p490kvp said:
He has made some pretty desperate moves in the past - Damon 95/Jacques 97 - but then I don't know a race driver alive that has an ability to run up the front who hasn't made a few moves he doesn't regret upon reflection.
But that's one difference - he does not apparetnly regret them!
At what point do you see deliberately turning into another car and taking them out so that you can win a championship as not cheating?
p490kvp said:
The weekend was typical of his character and he's paid the price - like he did in 97. However he isn't a cheat, just very competitive and his brain works in this way under pressure.
Whether this past weekend was actually cheating is debatable, I would agree, it's a fine line.
p490kvp said:
It's easy for knockers to nit pick at one or two incidents and then create a story from that but as I see it the record shows more race wins, pole positions and world championships than anyone else in the history of the sport - surely you got to respect that and surely you have to conceed the biggest element in all of that achievement was skill and hard work.
You think that deliberately driving into other comptitors to prevent them from winning is "nit picking"?
That's what is so annoying about the guy - he is soooo talented and he works so hard I really want to like him - it's great that in my lifetime there is someone rewriting the record books. It is just a shame that he has to resort to cheating when he clearly doesn't need to - it tarnishes a superlative competitor who has an almost untouchable record.
I'll never be a "proper" racer, maybe that's not a bad thing.
You always have to put statistics into the context of the times in which they are achieved. Total points, total wins etc are almost meaningless without reference to the number of races participated in, length of career in F1, points awarded for wins and positions etc.
Schumacher has a number of things going for him which assist his record making -
a long career in F1 (almost 15 years)
more championship races per season - especially in recent years
no non-championship F1 races - all his races count for points, unlike in Fangio's, Clark's or Moss' era
higher point values being given for places
more places eligible for points
A I said earlier, he has certainly been top dog in his era and garnered an awful lot of statistical records - and I'm sure he would have done well in any era of motor racing. BUT (and there always will be a large BUT when discussing Schumacher) the MANNER in which he has made these achievements will always be tarnished.
Schumacher has a number of things going for him which assist his record making -
a long career in F1 (almost 15 years)
more championship races per season - especially in recent years
no non-championship F1 races - all his races count for points, unlike in Fangio's, Clark's or Moss' era
higher point values being given for places
more places eligible for points
A I said earlier, he has certainly been top dog in his era and garnered an awful lot of statistical records - and I'm sure he would have done well in any era of motor racing. BUT (and there always will be a large BUT when discussing Schumacher) the MANNER in which he has made these achievements will always be tarnished.
Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 9th August 12:05
Hey I for one was not defending some of his actions but as some have suggested vis a vis his team cheating - a driver isn't responsible for what his team does... I mean come on when these guys essentially just sit behind the wheel. The motor has come in a crate from the engine builder - no one but the builder knows the real spec!
He has dropped the ball a few times - just like Senna did in the past. Then when you try and draw comparison between the era's, in Fangio's era you could swap cars when their version shat itself. Not only that but the depth of competition just wasn't what it is today. In the 1950's you had one or two factory cars with proper drivers racing a bunch of Harry boys in older privately entered versions.
I think his move on Hill (95) was silly but a move that you'll see week in week out at club race meetings up and down the country. I think 97 with Villenuve was even stronger and was too much - and he got properly dressed down for.
Monaco this year was actually quite funny - in as much as he just played mind games more than anything else. I don't think it was cheating more gamesmanship - no more than footballers take the odd dive or boxers lean on each other for a rest.
All I'm saying is that you can't surely expand from these incidents to all of his wins. of all the hype that has come and gone over the years for the Villenue's/Hill's/Coulthard's/Button's/Kimi's/Hakkinen's/Montoya's/Alonso's (even dare I say it Senna) - Schumacher has kept on winning and for the most part shown them how it is done.
He has dropped the ball a few times - just like Senna did in the past. Then when you try and draw comparison between the era's, in Fangio's era you could swap cars when their version shat itself. Not only that but the depth of competition just wasn't what it is today. In the 1950's you had one or two factory cars with proper drivers racing a bunch of Harry boys in older privately entered versions.
I think his move on Hill (95) was silly but a move that you'll see week in week out at club race meetings up and down the country. I think 97 with Villenuve was even stronger and was too much - and he got properly dressed down for.
Monaco this year was actually quite funny - in as much as he just played mind games more than anything else. I don't think it was cheating more gamesmanship - no more than footballers take the odd dive or boxers lean on each other for a rest.
All I'm saying is that you can't surely expand from these incidents to all of his wins. of all the hype that has come and gone over the years for the Villenue's/Hill's/Coulthard's/Button's/Kimi's/Hakkinen's/Montoya's/Alonso's (even dare I say it Senna) - Schumacher has kept on winning and for the most part shown them how it is done.
Is the driver not a part of the team?
Do you really think that such an important and integral element of the team (whether Benetton or Ferrari) was totally ignorant of what the engineers might be up to?
When you consider the thousands and thousands of miles spent testing the cars (too many miles, in my opinion) do you think that the driver would be kept in the dark about some of the features of the car that were being tested?
Somehow, I doubt it.
Do you really think that such an important and integral element of the team (whether Benetton or Ferrari) was totally ignorant of what the engineers might be up to?
When you consider the thousands and thousands of miles spent testing the cars (too many miles, in my opinion) do you think that the driver would be kept in the dark about some of the features of the car that were being tested?
Somehow, I doubt it.
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