BTCC Snetterton...AKA banger racing
Discussion
OK, I admit it. This weekend was appaling.
- Half the passing was done by 'pushing' the other person out of the way/onto the grass. Neal, Sheddon, Turkington, Collard, Giovanardi, Plato were all clearly guilty. Probably others that I missed.
- Some overtakes were spoiled by not giving the other driver room on the exit of the corner and pushing them onto the grass.
- Plato was just a thug, driving a very aggressive and dangerous race. Have NO idea why the clerk of one course or another hasn't censured him yet.
- Neal let the red-mist descend and put himself into a position where he could only lose. Unprofessional.
IMHO, the only drivers to emerge with real credit from the races are Thommo, Smith (for that amazing drive with bust rear suspension), and Eoin Murray (not the best meeting for him, but again clean and skilful racing). Mike Jordan again also showed more maturity than most.
- Half the passing was done by 'pushing' the other person out of the way/onto the grass. Neal, Sheddon, Turkington, Collard, Giovanardi, Plato were all clearly guilty. Probably others that I missed.
- Some overtakes were spoiled by not giving the other driver room on the exit of the corner and pushing them onto the grass.
- Plato was just a thug, driving a very aggressive and dangerous race. Have NO idea why the clerk of one course or another hasn't censured him yet.
- Neal let the red-mist descend and put himself into a position where he could only lose. Unprofessional.
IMHO, the only drivers to emerge with real credit from the races are Thommo, Smith (for that amazing drive with bust rear suspension), and Eoin Murray (not the best meeting for him, but again clean and skilful racing). Mike Jordan again also showed more maturity than most.
havoc said:
OK, I admit it. This weekend was appaling.
- Half the passing was done by 'pushing' the other person out of the way/onto the grass. Neal, Sheddon, Turkington, Collard, Giovanardi, Plato were all clearly guilty. Probably others that I missed.
- Some overtakes were spoiled by not giving the other driver room on the exit of the corner and pushing them onto the grass.
- Plato was just a thug, driving a very aggressive and dangerous race. Have NO idea why the clerk of one course or another hasn't censured him yet.
- Neal let the red-mist descend and put himself into a position where he could only lose. Unprofessional.
IMHO, the only drivers to emerge with real credit from the races are Thommo, Smith (for that amazing drive with bust rear suspension), and Eoin Murray (not the best meeting for him, but again clean and skilful racing). Mike Jordan again also showed more maturity than most.
- Half the passing was done by 'pushing' the other person out of the way/onto the grass. Neal, Sheddon, Turkington, Collard, Giovanardi, Plato were all clearly guilty. Probably others that I missed.
- Some overtakes were spoiled by not giving the other driver room on the exit of the corner and pushing them onto the grass.
- Plato was just a thug, driving a very aggressive and dangerous race. Have NO idea why the clerk of one course or another hasn't censured him yet.
- Neal let the red-mist descend and put himself into a position where he could only lose. Unprofessional.
IMHO, the only drivers to emerge with real credit from the races are Thommo, Smith (for that amazing drive with bust rear suspension), and Eoin Murray (not the best meeting for him, but again clean and skilful racing). Mike Jordan again also showed more maturity than most.
I completely disagree. The "pushing" was mostly accidental and rubbing is racing. Also have you even driven a car of that power in wet conditions round a race track?
Big cheese! said:
I completely disagree. The "pushing" was mostly accidental and rubbing is racing. Also have you even driven a car of that power in wet conditions round a race track?
You've been watching too much Tom Cruise.
And what, 170-200bhp region, in the wet, on a track, actually, yes, I have. But then, I'm also not a professional racing driver so I'd expect them to have enough 'talent' to not hit each other, rubbing or not, when they need to overtake.
The best racing of the day was left till the end when the HSCC cars came out to play for 30 minutes. Chevy Camaros, Mustangs, Aston Martins, Lotus Cortinas, Ford Anglias, Minis, Capris.
And no contact, they were actually overtaking without hitting each other. Shame the BTCC boys would have left in their helicopters by then.
And no contact, they were actually overtaking without hitting each other. Shame the BTCC boys would have left in their helicopters by then.
Kevin...fair point...neither driver gave way, the overtake was borderline but not stupid. I'd say 50-50 but it depends on your perspective. So Smith wasn't perfect either. Edit: On reflection, can see why he did it, but like Neal in race-2, it was a silly thing to do.
Cheese:
1) Only 1 race was wet, yet the dry races had more 'aggressive contact'. So not especially relevant. But also...so what...single-seater racing happens in the wet all the time.
2) But yes, I have - trackday'd an Integra around Donington in the wet, and it does require more concentration...but that's what they're paid for!
Anyway...up until now I've been one of BTCC's defenders on here...but yesterday was very disappointing. Plato needs to be reined in heavily as a warning to the others (I couldn't care less that he's a TV celebrity...IMHO the guy is dangerous), plus the odd black-flag or stewards investigation might just remind them what they're there for.
The most stupid incident to me was passing in race 3 around one of the fastest corners by getting up the inside and leaning on the other car...happened a few times but in this instance both cars lost grip and went off-circuit (but under control...loosely) at 100mph+...allowing Thommo to cruise past from behind them both. Think Sheddon was involved...IIRC as the victim (this time) with an MG pushing him out.
Cheese:
1) Only 1 race was wet, yet the dry races had more 'aggressive contact'. So not especially relevant. But also...so what...single-seater racing happens in the wet all the time.
2) But yes, I have - trackday'd an Integra around Donington in the wet, and it does require more concentration...but that's what they're paid for!
Anyway...up until now I've been one of BTCC's defenders on here...but yesterday was very disappointing. Plato needs to be reined in heavily as a warning to the others (I couldn't care less that he's a TV celebrity...IMHO the guy is dangerous), plus the odd black-flag or stewards investigation might just remind them what they're there for.
The most stupid incident to me was passing in race 3 around one of the fastest corners by getting up the inside and leaning on the other car...happened a few times but in this instance both cars lost grip and went off-circuit (but under control...loosely) at 100mph+...allowing Thommo to cruise past from behind them both. Think Sheddon was involved...IIRC as the victim (this time) with an MG pushing him out.
Edited by havoc on Monday 14th August 13:34
havoc said:
OK, I admit it. This weekend was appaling.
- Half the passing was done by 'pushing' the other person out of the way/onto the grass. Neal, Sheddon, Turkington, Collard, Giovanardi, Plato were all clearly guilty. Probably others that I missed.
- Some overtakes were spoiled by not giving the other driver room on the exit of the corner and pushing them onto the grass.
- Plato was just a thug, driving a very aggressive and dangerous race. Have NO idea why the clerk of one course or another hasn't censured him yet.
- Neal let the red-mist descend and put himself into a position where he could only lose. Unprofessional.
IMHO, the only drivers to emerge with real credit from the races are Thommo, Smith (for that amazing drive with bust rear suspension), and Eoin Murray (not the best meeting for him, but again clean and skilful racing). Mike Jordan again also showed more maturity than most.
- Half the passing was done by 'pushing' the other person out of the way/onto the grass. Neal, Sheddon, Turkington, Collard, Giovanardi, Plato were all clearly guilty. Probably others that I missed.
- Some overtakes were spoiled by not giving the other driver room on the exit of the corner and pushing them onto the grass.
- Plato was just a thug, driving a very aggressive and dangerous race. Have NO idea why the clerk of one course or another hasn't censured him yet.
- Neal let the red-mist descend and put himself into a position where he could only lose. Unprofessional.
IMHO, the only drivers to emerge with real credit from the races are Thommo, Smith (for that amazing drive with bust rear suspension), and Eoin Murray (not the best meeting for him, but again clean and skilful racing). Mike Jordan again also showed more maturity than most.
you sound surprised?! this has been the case regarding BTCC for the last five years....
I think it's been going downhill since Steve Soper took out (whether deliberate or not) John Cleland at Silverstone in 1992 to enable his team mate Tim Harvey to win the title. The fact Soper wasn't repromanded/fined or given a suspension set the tone for what was to come. Before that there was great racing, but it's been going downhill since.
Agree - BTCC is nothing more than expensive banger racing. Only reason why thugs like Plato are allowed to get away with it would, I assume, be that it brings the crowds and a TV audience. Don't they realise that you can still have great entertainment without the banger racing tactics? BTCC is worst enemy for club racers - if we behaved like that we would be dragged in front of CoC quick as anything. Unfortunately there are some in club racing who have more money than talent and see the BTCC as the example of driving standards for them to follow - that's the sad thing.
FourWheelDrift said:
The best racing of the day was left till the end when the HSCC cars came out to play for 30 minutes. Chevy Camaros, Mustangs, Aston Martins, Lotus Cortinas, Ford Anglias, Minis, Capris.
And no contact, they were actually overtaking without hitting each other. Shame the BTCC boys would have left in their helicopters by then.
And no contact, they were actually overtaking without hitting each other. Shame the BTCC boys would have left in their helicopters by then.
Fantastic entertainment right down to the wire when the 2nd place Aston tried a move down the inside of the McCarthy MG at Russell, obviously realised it wasn't quite going to work and got the AM locked up to avoid the MG! If that had been the BTCC race, the guy in 3rd place would most probably have won.
I should think the bodyshop bills from yesterday's 3 BTCC races are going to be astronomical! It's been a while since I've seen quite so many smashed-up racing cars still circulating, but then it's been a while since I was at a touring car meeting...
Still, the 'target' audience where I was, at Russell, all wearing their orange RAC hats, seemed to enjoy it; cheering Matt Neal and booing Jason Plato. It was like being at a bloody pantomime, not a race meeting! And flippin' air horns...
TVRs at Mallory next Sunday; back to some proper racing!
havoc said:
rubystone said:
I feel sorry for the independents especially Kaye who have limited numbers of body panels and even less cash.
That was pretty much my thoughts yesterday...there is some real talent out there in the independents, yet half their budget is going to be bodyshop bills.
Not to mention Fiona Leggate who was running her own race, keeping out of the way, and then gets smacked by Smith in a very cack-handed lapping maneouvre...
Trackside said:
FourWheelDrift said:
The best racing of the day was left till the end when the HSCC cars came out to play for 30 minutes. Chevy Camaros, Mustangs, Aston Martins, Lotus Cortinas, Ford Anglias, Minis, Capris.
And no contact, they were actually overtaking without hitting each other. Shame the BTCC boys would have left in their helicopters by then.
And no contact, they were actually overtaking without hitting each other. Shame the BTCC boys would have left in their helicopters by then.
Fantastic entertainment right down to the wire when the 2nd place Aston tried a move down the inside of the McCarthy MG at Russell, obviously realised it wasn't quite going to work and got the AM locked up to avoid the MG! If that had been the BTCC race, the guy in 3rd place would most probably have won.
I should think the bodyshop bills from yesterday's 3 BTCC races are going to be astronomical! It's been a while since I've seen quite so many smashed-up racing cars still circulating, but then it's been a while since I was at a touring car meeting...
Still, the 'target' audience where I was, at Russell, all wearing their orange RAC hats, seemed to enjoy it; cheering Matt Neal and booing Jason Plato. It was like being at a bloody pantomime, not a race meeting! And flippin' air horns...
TVRs at Mallory next Sunday; back to some proper racing!
Where abouts at russel were you? Spotted your car (I think) but not you!
I don't seem to remember any contact of any significance in the time ('60s and '70s) when cars as diverse as Mini Coopers - one driven by Paddy Hopkirk - and the giant Willment Ford Galaxies (7 litre V8 US monsters) shared the track in one race. The disparity in power and manoeuvreability was massive and yet respect was shown by all. Or maybe my memory is faulty.......
GarrettMacD said:
Not to mention Fiona Leggate who was running her own race, keeping out of the way, and then gets smacked by Smith in a very cack-handed lapping maneouvre...
She's actually a decent driver, it would interesting to see how she would do with a better car.
As for the Paint swapping i usually don't get wound up about it, but yesterday was a step too far IMHO. Both Plato and Matt Neal need suspending for a race or 2 to cool them down a bit.
As for the Heritage Grand Tourers, they are without a doubt one of the best race series going at the moment. Superb stuff.
From Oulton Park a few months back...
Marvellous
Edited by monkeyhanger on Monday 14th August 16:30
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